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Pilgrim,
Either regeneration, which you claim takes place at baptism exists in the recipient or it does not.
Regeneration occurs when and where it pleases God in them that hear the gospel. If God is pleased to regenerate at baptism, it will occur.
Secondly, it seems you can't make up your mind whether regeneration precedes or follows faith??
It occurs at exactly the same time.
Thirdly, if regeneration does take place when an infant (adult?) is baptised, it is either efficacious or it is not.
We are probably using two different definitions. In Lutheran parlance, the word of God in baptism or preaching is always efficacious, whether many, few, or none actually come to faith.
It would also appear, which would be consistent with conservative Lutheran theology, that you believe in "baptismal regeneration", i.e., regeneration is inextricably connected with baptism and infallibly occurs at the time of baptism.
Could you please cite the section of the Book of Concord that teaches what you have described?
Would you hold that one can be saved without baptism?
I agree with Luther.
"the word of God is the greatest, most necessary, and most sublime part in Christendom--for the sacraments cannot exist without the word, but indeed the word can exist without the sacraments, and in an emergency one could be saved without the sacraments (as for example, those who die before receiving the desired baptism) but not without the word"
Luther Works, vol. 38, p 189.
In short, the Confession teaches that ALL the "elect" are saved despite their physical condition. Salvation is of the LORD Who works in the elect at His appointed time by the Holy Spirit Who regenerates them and thus unites them to Christ. So, even here, regeneration guarantees salvation to those who have been elected from eternity. (cf. Rom 8:29, 30; Eph 1:4-13; et al)
Agreed but a new heresy is teaching to itching ears that all children are saved.
Entire Thread
The Role Of Works In Our Salvation (2)
Anonymous
Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:43 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:57 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
fredman
Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:48 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:42 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
fredman
Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:59 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:31 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
fredman
Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:05 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:50 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
J_Edwards
Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:55 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
fredman
Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:03 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Pilgrim
Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:24 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:34 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Pilgrim
Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:22 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:08 AM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Pilgrim
Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:21 AM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:25 AM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Pilgrim
Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:31 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:23 PM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Pilgrim
Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:13 AM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:42 AM
Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
J_Edwards
Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:27 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:30 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:10 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:21 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:46 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
J_Edwards
Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:51 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
fredman
Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:11 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:37 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
fredman
Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:22 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:40 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
fredman
Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:12 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Tom
Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:59 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:23 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:51 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:56 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:09 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:44 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
CovenantInBlood
Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:00 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:37 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:54 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
fredman
Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:36 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
CovenantInBlood
Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:57 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:24 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:02 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:39 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
CovenantInBlood
Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:16 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:09 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:35 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Peter
Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:20 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:12 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your Vi
Peter
Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:12 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your Vi
Anonymous
Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:58 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
fredman
Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:08 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:58 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
fredman
Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:59 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:10 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:33 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:14 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:58 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:42 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:22 AM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:23 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Anonymous
Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:40 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Pilgrim
Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:12 PM
Re: Please Provide Scriptural Exegesis for Your View
Tom
Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:28 AM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:37 AM
Re: The Role Of Works In Our Salvation
Anonymous
Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:56 PM
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