The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum The Role Of Works In Our Salvation (2)

(Fred) Yep, that is pretty much what I affirm. That is what historical, biblical Calvinist have always affirmed. I am curious why you think otherwise?

Though on the last point, I agree that the faith given by the holy spirit will be effective in the life of the sinner so that the sinner will most certainly embrace Christ, meaning it will always be 100% beneficial. You seem to suggest a prevenient grace perspective with salvation. In other words, the sinner can either embrace the faith or reject it. The scriptures do not teach there is an option for sinners to reject God's efficacious grace. All sinners who are granted God's effectual grace are elect sinners to begin with. If you believe differently, and all of the hardcore Lutherans I have debated in the past do, I would like for you to provide some scriptural evidence of a person rejecting effectual regenerative grace.


(Fred) Sorry bud, the Bible witnesses against you. As I pointed out before, the book of 1 John was written that Christians may know they have eternal life (1 Jn. 5:13). John affirms the reality of that certain knowledge by providing a divinely inspired list of outward "markers" that identify a person's saving faith, ie, anyone who says he does not sin is a liar, anyone who hates the brethern is a liar, anyone loving the world is not "one of us," etc. Thus, the Bible does provide me a firm foundation of standing on which to inquire after a person's past or future faith. John's first epistle is just one example from the NT. We could also explore 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians, 2 Peter and Jude if you wish, but for you to avoid answering my question on eternal security by hiding behind what Lutheran theologues have contrived as being a "mystery of faith," or whatever they want to call it, does not help you credibility in the least.

Fred