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#18468
Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,046 Likes: 285
Head Honcho
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,046 Likes: 285 |
OrthodoxCatholic said: Wrong, of course. Read the writings of the Early Fathers. The same Gospel which they believed is believed by the Church today. I will say this again and again: the so called "gospel" which Luther and Calvin invented was no "gospel" at all, but in fact, may have sent many thousands to the Pit of Hell because of the effect of their preaching. Of course, I would beg to differ with you on the very nature and content of the Gospel which the Reformers preached as was and will forever be that which the Apostles preached and which is the power of salvation to all who believe. It is the gospel which Paul fought with all his strength to guard, especially against those who would pervert it by adding to grace and element of works. (cf. Gal 1:6-9; 2:1-19) You do know, I'm sure, that during Luther's lifetime, that this idea that one is justified "once and for all time" before God led the Germans to turn Germany into a moral cesspool. After all, if one is "once saved - always saved" then of what difference does it make HOW one lives? And the German people came to this conclusion and turned Germany into a haven of immorality. This is truly a nonsensical argument which the Roman State Church has used countless times to bring disrepute upon the pure and biblical doctrine of the Perseverance/Preservation of the Saints. And, it has been shown to be fallacious countless times and that it is but a roughly assembled strawman that has no semblance to what the Reformed Faith teaches. The truth of the matter is, the biblical teaching is that IF a man is truly justified by grace through faith, then good works will of necessity follow and exhibit that faith. (cf. Rom 6; Matt 7:22, 23; Lk 6:46; Eph 2:8-10; Phil 1:11, 12; et al and The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XIII - "Of Sanctification") b) the right administration of the sacraments,
Might I ask you just HOW the Sacraments are supposed to be "rightly administered". I never heard of such a thing as "right administration" of the Sacraments as a Presbyterian. To be more accurate, the Belgic Confession, Article XXIX, on the true marks of the Church uses the phrase, "pure administration". Be that as it may, what the phrase means is that both baptism and the Lord's Supper are to be administered according to the biblical warrant; i.e., by an ordained clergy and to those who are qualified to partake of them and according to a right understanding of them. This would exclude such things as baptismal regeneration and transubstantiation. 2) Immersion: I agree with you, but I am STRONGLY (like an 800 pound gorilla strong!)in favor of IMMERSION as the proper way of picturing the death burial and resurrection of our Lord. Also, it is the proper form to the administration of the New Covenant. A refutation of the view that immersion is the primary acceptable mode of administering baptism can be found here: The Token of the Covenant. I wrote: On a personal note, I was baptized as an infant in a very liberal Methodist church. Neither of my parents were believers.
How do you know? What makes you the judge of another's heart? This is one thing I find extremely distasteful about Calvinist and Evangelical thought -- i.e., the right to judge others according to your standards of what makes one a Christian I know without question what the spiritual state of my parents are due to the fact that they categorically deny any need of Christ and/or salvation. If that isn't a warrant to judge them, then pray tell, what is? Further, to the Church is given the right to discipline those within its membership according to what they can "see" outwardly, including excommunication, which is a pronouncement that the individual is deemed to be outside the camp and has no part in the family of God; i.e., he/she is for all intents and purposes no warrant to be accepted as a believer. Such judgment is never to be understood as one that knows God's eternal decree for any individual in regard to salvation. However, this does not preclude the injunctions that men are to judge other men in regard to the fruit of their alleged profession of faith. It's unfortunate that the Roman Church has failed miserably to discipline not only its laity but especially its clergy who have openly defied and denied the official teachings of the church to which they are members and serve. And finally you opined: Again, sir, and respectfully said to you, you do not understand how a covenant works. You are certainly entitled to your whimsical opinions about what I understand and/or don't understand. But what I do know is that I understand sufficiently that it is a fatal step into apostasy to distort the covenant of grace whereby one intermixes faith and works in order to be justified. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scold.gif" alt="" /> In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:24 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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fredman
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:33 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:04 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:46 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:35 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Tom
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:03 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:13 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:23 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:01 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:19 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:59 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:24 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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J_Edwards
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Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:53 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:22 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:55 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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J_Edwards
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:24 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:00 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Tom
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:00 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Tom
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Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:09 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:25 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:48 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Reformation Monk
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Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:46 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:07 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:45 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:43 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:07 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:37 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:28 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:03 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:58 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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janean
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Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:50 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:43 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:27 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:33 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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J_Edwards
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:20 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:13 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:50 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:38 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:35 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:19 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:25 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:23 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:34 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:02 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:10 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:19 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:46 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:18 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:45 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:36 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:01 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:03 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:30 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:18 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:41 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:27 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:33 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:04 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:43 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:31 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:40 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:48 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:17 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:21 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:27 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:59 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:53 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Peter
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Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:10 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:11 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:16 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:03 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:31 AM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:07 PM
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Re: Infant Baptism Question
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:54 PM
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