Prestor John<br><br>That is how I understand what Lutherans believe.<br>I have been in a conversation with a few Lutherans, and no matter how much dialogue we as Calvinists gave on the subject, they (Lutherans) came back with the same kind of answer. Basically they believe that we as Calvinists do not understand what it really means to be justified by faith. They keep saying that when it really comes down to it, what we believe is really no different than what Arminians believe.<br>If one uses James 2:16-17, they will tell you that James was not talking about the same kind of faith that Paul was talking about.<br>If you would like, I can give you a link to show you this dialogue.<br>They also say that in our systematic theology we change the obvious meaning of Scripture, in order to make it fit into our dogma.<br>John 3:16 is one such verse that they use as an example of this. <br><br>I have been in conversation enough with them, to steer clear of that kind of conversation with them. I felt like I was banging my head against a wall.<br><br><br><br>Tom