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#21174
Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
No. The RCC does not believe that the natural body of Christ is present. The Papists believe in a concept called concomitance whereby the bread is converted to a mixture of "Flesh and Blood, Body and Soul, Humanity and Divinity", a concept which they admit is not found in the Words of Institution. Pope John XXIII in 1963, at the Second Vatican Council, said, "I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent." What saith the Council of Trent; If any one shall say that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is not to be adored in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, even with the open worship of Latria ... nor to be solemnly carried about in processions ... and that He is not to be publicly set before the people to be adored, and that His adorers are idolaters,--let him be accursed!—Council of Trent, Canon VI
If any one shall deny that the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist; and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure--let him be accursed!—Council of Trent, Canon I
If any one shall say that the substance of the bread and wine remains in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist, together with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ...--let him be accursed!—Council of Trent, Canon II
When Mass ends, the wafers do not change back into bread again, but remain God, according to Canon IV of the Council of Trent. What saith other Catholic books and theologians? When Jesus Christ said, 'Do this for a commemoration of Me,' He made His Apostles priests, and commanded them to change bread and wine into His Body and Blood. —Catholic Faith, Based on The Catholic Catechism, by His Eminence Peter Cardinal Gasparri (P.J. Kenedy & Sons, 1938), p 214.
My Lord Jesus Christ, I believe that Thou art truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. I believe that in holy communion I shall receive Thy sacred body and Thy precious blood. — Holy Souls Book, by Rev. F.X. Lasance, ed. (Benziger Brothers, 1922), p. 316, Nihil Obstat: A.J. Scanlan, S.T.D.; Imprimatur, P.J. Hayes, D.D., Archbishop of NY.
The Mass is the same Sacrifice as the Sacrifice of the Cross. The Victim is the same--Jesus Christ--offering Himself in the Mass through the ministry of His priests, as He once offered Himself on the Cross. ...
Revere, therefore, this table of which we all partake; Christ is slain for us; the Sacrifice is placed upon this altar. — Ibid, p 217, quoting St. John Chrysostom.
The most obvious meaning of the Consecration is the 'miracle' of the transubstantiation, or change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of the Saviour; and wherever His Body and Blood are, there is the whole Christ with His Soul and His Divinity. Before, on the altar, there was something, now there is Somebody...Christ, the Word Incarnate, is really present on the altar. He is present as really as in heaven, though in a different manner.—My Mass, by Joseph Putz. S.J. (Newman Press, 1955), p 55 Imprimi Potest: L. Schillebeeckx, S.J.; Imprimatur, J. Fernandes.
Christ changes our gifts into His Body and Blood ... it is the same Christ who was born of Mary and lifted up on the Cross for our salvation ...our God whom we adore: 'My Lord and my God.' ... here goes up to heaven the most efficacious satisfaction for the world's sins ...— Ibid, p 77.
For when the Lord says, “Unless ye have eaten the flesh of the Son of Man, and drunk His blood, ye will not have life in you”; you ought so to be partakers at the Holy Table, as to have no doubt whatever concerning the reality of Christ’s Body and Blood.— St. Leo I the Great, Sermon 91, c. 461.
After the words of consecration there is present numerically the same Body of Christ as was born of the Virgin and was immolated on the Cross. –Clement VI, Letter to the Armenians, September 29, 1351. A brief point of clarification regarding your quotations from the LCMS Brief Statement. The only doctrinal formulations binding on LCMS members are those from the 1580 Book of Concord. LCMS convention resolutions do not have confessional authority. They are theses offered up for consideration. Your comments are appreciated. The LCMS Brief Statement is the “present interpretation” and “application” of the BC that the LCMS embraces. Doctrinal statements are a declaration and not simply a consideration. Their site maintains “A Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position….. The problem is that you desire to change the meaning of terms, like above, so that words have no meaning whatsoever, except those that you inspire at the moment they mean.
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Christian Soldier
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:43 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Wes
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:14 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:11 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:27 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:38 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Peter
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Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:41 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:47 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:49 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:28 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:06 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:56 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:54 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Peter
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:05 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:25 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Peter
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Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:24 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:08 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:18 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:20 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:12 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:01 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:02 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:22 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:22 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:48 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:58 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:30 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:58 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:48 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:48 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:00 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:16 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:29 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:29 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:53 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:40 PM
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The True Church
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J_Edwards
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Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:04 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:57 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:27 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:47 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:13 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Henry
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:23 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:01 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:31 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Henry
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:36 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:16 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:31 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:49 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:38 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:29 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:12 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:21 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:14 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:46 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:53 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:24 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:26 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Tom
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:04 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:10 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:36 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:51 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:32 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:13 AM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:51 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:26 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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J_Edwards
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Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:01 PM
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Re: Christian Soldier
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:00 PM
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