<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]rminians believe Christ that died on the cross for every individual person and thereby made it possible for every person to be saved. They also believe that Christ's death, apart from the choice of man, was not able to actually save anyone for many for whom He died are lost. If this is true then it all depends on man and God has to hope that man will choose Him. God wants to save them but man has to let Him. </font><hr></blockquote><p><br>"for mankind" even every person, potentially. yes, choice of man. He can save them by his redemptive design. it is because of mercy that the redemptive design is employed still without touching man's free will even though they are lost but in that lost state through the redemptive design God has provided a way out of being lost that in the lost condition man can choose to come out even though in that lost stay man is depraved though of course not totally depraved as calvin surmises. sinful nature nor the evil spirit residing in man is enough to totally overthrow all men. that is how incredible free will is. it can beat the sinful nature and it can choose God inspite of the devil residing within and without. God does not have to hope. God knows such a perfect will made like His will choose Him otherwise he would have not begun the process to begin with. The only question remnains whom and how many. whatever that number be is is the righteous number of the fulness of the gentiles. that is all we have to go on and must trust because when the fullness comes in His parousia begins and he can finally return from the days of the garden to start to walk with man in the 1000 year reign of Christ with HIs overcomers. Yes man chooses, God gives the gift of eternal life. Man fulfills the conditions God set for His working. Man is not letting God do anything. God is dictating the parameters of it all. Do you see the difference?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]However the Bible tells us that Christ died for only God's elect people and thereby actually obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. His death was a substitutionary satisfaction which actually took away the guilt of His chosen people. </font><hr></blockquote><p><br>Yes. those whom he foreknew would choose him under the law of perfect will in His image. He died for all the others too but He foreknew that they would not choose Him so in actuality his death did not reach them so His death was not for those who did not choose Him. last sentence, yes.<br><br>All those versese are good<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Troy what you fail to realize is that a dead man cannot make any choices. A drowning man cannot choose to be saved. Unless the Spirit of God breathes life into the soul of man he cannot make any choices much less choose to be born again.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br>Dead means spirit insensitive to things of God. The will is not dead, just not renewed. The will under the state of non-rewal of regeneration still has the power to choose for God's life or not as it did at the tree of life. What gives man the power yet still inspite of the sin nature and the dead spirit is the deliverance of the redemptive design. Men though few of the OT had a new life and more so in the NT because of one thing. Christ death and resurrection both substitiion and codeath with Him made possible. If this choice was never made all men die. Through resurrected life all men could live but not all men choose this life.<br><br>Don't believe the mistaken assumption that man is so fargone he can't come back without exercising his free will to choose. Otherwise you sedate yourself into passivity of a calvanist exactly what he devil wants.<br><br>God has already breathed the breath of life into a man which became mans spirit and when that spirit touched the body from dust there was created a soul life and in that soul life a free will in the image of God. When man makes the choice for God through His Son right there and then God gives man a new life, a quickened sprit and God's life, all these 3 things. <br><br>It almost always comes back to tripartate man to help people Understand bipartate man is a fallen man in this first chapter<br>http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv1/1968c1p1.htm<br><br>Man is not dead, not yet though his spirit is dead, insensitive to things of God, he can yet give into the redemptive desing inspite of sin nature attacking from the outer and the evil spirit dwelliong within. How powerful God is to have forknown to give man a free will like His to overcome to accept Christ and give a way out of man's lost state.<br><br><br>
