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Joined: Apr 2001
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xyz said: But is it a sin? Does one not have the right to decide upon the nature of one's own conduct? We are gods. We have the sovereign right to determine our own fates. We have the right to say that we are sinless, and have no need of propitiation, or even that there is no such thing as sin. But if we do that, we have to prove it, and it is only then, when we come to judgment, that our denial becomes folly. And because it is a folly, and a lie, it can be accounted a sin- the unforgivable sin, as it will turn out.
So when we hear that all of our sins have been forgiven, we have the choice of accepting that, or rejecting it. We do not hear that all but one of our sins are forgiven, because that would be no better than hearing that none are forgiven. Methinks you have missed the point entirely and thus I can now understand how you can dismiss Owen's premise with a smile Christ's atoning work is first and foremost OBJECTIVE and FORENSIC. What He accomplished was to accomplish justice, i.e., to appease God by taking upon Himself the punishment due to the breaking of God's holy law; aka: passive. Additionally, He also satisfied the necessity of actually keeping that holy law of God perfectly; aka: active. Thus, in His life, death and resurrection the FULL demands of God and the law were met. Secondly, since His atonement was vicarious and substitutionary, ALL those for whom He died share in that completed work (sacrifice, ransom, reconciliation and propitiation). ALL are freed from condemnation since justice was met. It matters not whether a person accepts or rejects what was done to make that work effectual. Thirdly, the salvation secured by Christ not only accomplished the redemption necessary but also the MEANS to that end. Thus, ALL for whom Christ died are irresistibly and infallibly brought to repentance and faith in Christ through and by the sovereign working of the Holy Spirit. And this same Spirit dwells within each and everyone for whom Christ died working sanctification within them all their earthly days. Not one for whom Christ died will nor can be lost. His people (sheep), ALL of them, hear his voice and follow Him. ALL those for whom He died will be raised up on the last day. Thus, either one believes that Christ's death was effectual and 100% sufficient to accomplish salvation, which is the biblical teaching OR one rejects that truth and embraces any one of an inestimable choice of errors concerning the atonement, e.g., it made salvation possible IF a person does this, believes that, etc., etc., ad nauseam. Perhaps you need to reconsider Owen's premise and understand it rightly? In His grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Thu May 15, 2008 6:37 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Thu May 15, 2008 7:54 PM
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Tom
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Thu May 15, 2008 9:25 PM
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Paul_S
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Fri May 16, 2008 3:44 AM
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Tom
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Fri May 16, 2008 6:49 AM
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William
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Sat May 17, 2008 1:51 AM
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Pilgrim
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Mon May 19, 2008 2:40 PM
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William
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Mon May 19, 2008 11:31 PM
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Paul_S
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Tue May 20, 2008 3:53 AM
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William
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Wed May 21, 2008 12:01 AM
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MarieP
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Mon May 19, 2008 11:00 PM
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Tom
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Tue May 20, 2008 8:32 PM
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:44 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:51 PM
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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jaf
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:33 PM
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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chestnutmare
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:23 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:37 PM
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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xyz
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Peter
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:59 PM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:44 AM
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:37 PM
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xyz
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MarieP
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:29 PM
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xyz
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:58 PM
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:42 AM
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:53 AM
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:49 PM
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Peter
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mercy
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Peter
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mercy
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Paul_S
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Pilgrim
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mercy
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Peter
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Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:32 AM
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hisalone
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Pilgrim
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hisalone
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Tom
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:04 PM
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xyz
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Tom
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:15 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:17 PM
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xyz
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:34 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:04 PM
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xyz
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Robin
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xyz
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:01 AM
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Tom
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:13 AM
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:05 AM
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Tom
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:17 PM
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:41 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:27 AM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:44 AM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:41 AM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:05 AM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:29 AM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:57 AM
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Pilgrim
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:43 AM
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:54 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:30 PM
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:26 AM
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Robin
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:17 PM
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:49 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:32 AM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:44 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:02 PM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:13 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:47 PM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:24 PM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:50 AM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:23 AM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:25 PM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:08 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:06 PM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:45 PM
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mercy
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Wes
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:19 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:24 PM
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xyz
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:54 PM
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xyz
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:41 AM
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Wes
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:12 PM
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xyz
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:29 PM
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Wes
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:35 PM
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xyz
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:09 PM
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MarieP
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Wes
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:08 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:30 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:03 PM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:56 PM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:10 PM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:34 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:00 PM
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hisalone
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:53 PM
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:46 PM
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hisalone
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:01 PM
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:01 PM
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The Monergist
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:21 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:12 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:57 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:50 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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BradJHammond
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:05 PM
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:26 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:08 AM
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THREAD IS NOW LOCKED
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:38 PM
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