Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by Lynda
Now I'm more confused. I would have no hope at all if I were only a Deist. But I thought that God orchestrated only our spiritual lives and that we still made choices each day. This is probably where I blew it speaking to an Arminian.
Let's run with this idea to see how it works out, okay? But I must ask what it means that "God orchestrated only our spiritual lives"? As for God not (implied) orchestrating everything else then how does this everything occur... by chance? Is there no relationship between events that occur in life? If God has no control over the everyday choices of men then can there be anything that is certain? Question: How could the OT prophets be certain that what they prophesied would ever come to pass? Is God taken by surprise when you decide to take route 39N instead of 55S to reach a destination? Is God helplessly watching from His throne as men murder unborn babies? Was God simply a spectator during the holocaust? Was Christ crucified against God's will? Catching on here? grin

Men have the ability to make choices they being created in the image of God. But those choices are governed by their nature. AND, all the choices they make have all been ordained and are directed by God according to His eternal counsel, good pleasure and divine providence.

I thought that God did not orchestrate what clothing we would wear on a certain day or what food we would eat.

I certainly do understand that my coming to Christ was not by chance because I am the only one of six children who has come to Christ.

I do appreciate all your time and effort to teach me.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by Lynda
So does all this mean that a person isn't saved until he becomes a Calvinist? scratch1
No! And not all who profess to be Calvinists are saved either. wink However, IF <---- an Arminian truly believes what he/she professes theologically/doctrinally, then at least at the time of that profession they cannot be saved. Sin is a terrible thing and one of the myriad results of sin is this occasional bifurcation between the head and the heart. The inconsistency can only be known by dialog, questions, probing and the person's answers. Unfortunately, the vast majority of professing Christians today on BOTH sides of the theological chasm are unregenerate. Right doctrine does NOT save... but one cannot be saved without holding to right doctrine.
In His grace,

I think I understand what you are saying. So is one Calvinist church more right than others?