Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by Lynda
I thought that God did not orchestrate what clothing we would wear on a certain day or what food we would eat.

I certainly do understand that my coming to Christ was not by chance because I am the only one of six children who has come to Christ.
And why would God's providence not be over all that He has created and decreed from all eternity? There is a phenomena called, "cause and effect". I'm sure you are familiar with this, right? As an example, aren't we all taught that there are always consequences for the choices we make? "Jane!", the mother says loudly to her daughter, "I'm warning you! scold "If you tease your brother one more time, you will be restricted to your room for a week!!!" Now, what if there was even one individual whose everyday actions God didn't foreordain and by His providence control? scratchchin Let's presuppose that God wanted to keep you alive until the ripe old age of 95. And what if you were driving to the grocery store and this one lone "uncontrolled" individual decides to run a stop sign and hits you broadside at 50 mph and you are killed? Are you beginning to see the problem here when you have ANYTHING... One rogue molecule that isn't under God's sovereignty.

How could God bring you to Christ if you were killed before you were converted? Doesn't God have to have control over everything to make sure that all the means by which you were brought to Christ were sure? Again, I must direct you back to the crucifixion of Christ and how Peter describes this event in Acts 2:23; 3:18 and 4:27, 28. Is it even conceivable that all that was prophesied thousands of years beforehand could have actually happened exactly as God, through the prophets, said it would if God had not only ordained all things but providentially controlled every single thing? Peter says He did. grin

I get it.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by Lynda
I think I understand what you are saying. So is one Calvinist church more right than others?
yep Especially in these recent times there is a great diversity within churches of all stripes; Calvinist and Arminian/semi-Pelagian. We are living in a time when heresy is being brought into the Church through its members, which is most always where heresy comes from; within vs. without. The Calvinist churches today are quickly forsaking their heritage and the doctrines that they even still profess to believe but deny in practice. The errors are in myriad forms, e.g., worldly contemporary worship, women in office, preaching another Gospel, denial of the "Five Solas" particularly "Sola Fide" (justification by faith alone) via NPP and Federal Vision, etc., etc., ad nauseam. No longer can one have confidence that all the congregations within a denomination are sound. ALL denominations are having problems to one degree or another. One has to examine each local assembly carefully in order to determine its soundness. This is one of the reasons for our having a Church Locator Forum to help people find a reasonably sound church.

But again ALL of this falling away has been eternally foreordained by God to serve His purpose in bringing the Church, the Bride of Christ to its final meeting with Him. He is purging the dross, sweeping the threshing floor as He has often done in history past. This too shouldn't be of any surprise for isn't this exactly what the apostle Paul and Peter warned would happen; even in their own day?

1 Corinthians 11:19 (KJV) "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

2 Peter 2:1-2 (ASV) "But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of."


I see.

Last edited by Lynda; Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:34 AM.