Hi Jeff,

I know this is sensitive territory since you personally interfaced with some who were mired in doubt and conflictions. I'll try to tread very carefully here since I have many, many thoughts on these matters.

Let's start with John Calvin via Joel Beeke:

Quote
John Calvin believed that only 10% of his Geneva congregation was converted. He said, “For though, all without exception to whom God’s Word is preached, are taught, yet scarce one in ten so much as tastes it; yea, scarce one in a hundred profits to the extent of being enabled, thereby, to proceed in a right course to the end.” Quoted in Joel R. Beeke, The Quest for Full Assurance: The Legacy of Calvin and His Successors (Carlisle, Pennsylvania: Banner of Truth Trust, 1999), 59.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by AC.
* the importance of true repentance that comes about with regeneration in which the holy spirit makes us humble sinners before God and sin becomes our burden - we experience misery on account of our spiritual eyes being opened and we flea to Jesus for mediation. Without actualy experiencing our misery/total depravity we are missing the most important life giving aspect of the (TRUE) New Birth. Many of your friends who may be hostile to this may very well never have experienced their misery on account of sin and become true sinners before God, (i.e. those whom are drowning in their sins and need Jesus to rescue them).
And a few critical questions are: "Do you ever wonder, worry, have serious doubts of your salvation because you fear you haven't been convicted enough? Aren't miserable with yourself enough? Have you actually drowned in your sins or are you just floundering in them? Another question is, "Do you have great joy knowing you have been justified in the all-sufficent atoning work of Christ?" And, "Do you love serving God and work to further His kingdom as His adopted son/daughter?"

Originally Posted by AC.
* the need to refrain from world conformity which ventures into Christian Liberty territory (it is my belief that we use the idea of Christian Liberty to embrace vein pursuits that at best distract us from spiritual matters both before and after true conversion and at worst is God dishonoring, i.e. sports teams become idols, becoming addicted to reality shows, etc. - cannot serve the world/man and GOd but will be conformed into the image of Christ and increase in Holiness).
And WHO determines, "which ventures into Christian Liberty territory" and "Holiness"... Scripture or some denomination, church or pastor/elder? Is drinking a glass of wine with dinner "conformity with the world"? Is owning a TV a sin which needs to be repented of lest you risk eternal damnation? If a husband and wife engage in ballroom dancing, are they "conforming to this world"? Are there certain foods which one must abstain from eating because they are "worldly"? If a congregation doesn't hear the 10 Commandments read from the pulpit every Lord's Day, is that congregation less "holy" than one who does read them? Is a church less holy if they don't preach through the Heidelberg Catechism each and every evening worship service?

I think these are serious and necessary questions to ask. For to answer one way it indicates at best a tendency to Pharisaism or worse Legalism. (Lk 18:10-14)

I used to have doubts especically when I was trying to have my cake and eat it in balancing the world with God's favor. It wasn't until I hit bottom and all my righteousness became as filthy rags did Jesus become truly beloved and I lost my taste for this world and all it's offerings. Is my faith always in exercise? no but I do believe the promises of God are for me, He is my guide.


Where does our heart lie? as Beeke says (I'm just gonna reference him becasue I know you have respect for him) http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/tv_really_bad.html


TV at it's best has some neutral content (i.e. History Channel) at it's worst the content is GOd-dishonoring and features secular ideas/world-shaping views - do we really need a minister to tell us this http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Leonardo-Secular-Assault-Meaning/dp/1433669277.



Jeff,

I do believe we are to pick up our cross and give our whole selves to God. God is the same and as yesterday.

How does God feel about ballroom dancing? I don't know, how do you think He feels about it?, I guess it's indifferent....

a glass of wine with dinner, indifferent as well -

but I do believe there are certain acitivies we can and should rule out, activities that we can speak out against, I think we should remain seperated from the world in these matters, no?

Natural man wants to go to the taverns and watch the sporting events and go to the clubs and surround ourselves with all kinds of temptations. It is becoming more and more difficult because as a society we are becoming less and less modest, no matter where we go we are witnesses to godlessness. Things that used to be shameful to be commited in private are now done out in the open. I do believe we should shield ourselves and it is the duty of the churches to speak out against it. I think even in Reformed circles we want to hold GOd and the world hand in hand. I do believe when we give into that we are proving that we don't truly have the fruits of repentance but can just go along with the sin and vanity of this world.

As one who used to welcome the world with open arms and have been adversly affected by it, I am envious of those who have been shielded from the evils and vanities of this world.

Jeff,

Don't use Christian Liberty as an excuse to embrace the world and vein pursuits - that is not what the WC is about when it speaks of such matters.

I hope I am not coming off as disrespectful!

AC

Last edited by AC.; Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:05 PM.
The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine