Originally Posted by AC.
Let's start with John Calvin via Joel Beeke:

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John Calvin believed that only 10% of his Geneva congregation was converted. He said, “For though, all without exception to whom God’s Word is preached, are taught, yet scarce one in ten so much as tastes it; yea, scarce one in a hundred profits to the extent of being enabled, thereby, to proceed in a right course to the end.” Quoted in Joel R. Beeke, The Quest for Full Assurance: The Legacy of Calvin and His Successors (Carlisle, Pennsylvania: Banner of Truth Trust, 1999), 59.
What was true in the church and/or Geneva where John Calvin labored cannot be used as a paradigm for every church or place. It may be similar, worse or dissimilar depending upon the working of God according to His divine counsel. This applies even in our day where there may be churches or places where a much greater number of people have been given grace or where it has been withheld.
Originally Posted by AC.
I used to have doubts especically when I was trying to have my cake and eat it in balancing the world with God's favor...
The questions I had asked were not directed toward you personally, but rather to the general audience so that all may consider the caveats of going beyond Scripture and creating lists of "do's & don'ts" in regard to what is worldly and/or holy. (cf. Acts 15:10; Col 2:4ff) Those of us in Reformed circles often make the mistake of associating such man-made restrictions to Bob Jones University or Fundamentalism in general when in fact there are "Reformed" denominations and individual churches which do likewise. Since you deemed it profitable to provide a quote from John Calvin, I shall do the same in regard to this matter of Christian Liberty which some are want to restrict in such a narrow way as to prohibit all but a very small amount according to their own scruples:

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Section 7. Third part of liberty, viz., the free rise of things indifferent. The knowledge of this part necessary to remove despair and superstition. Superstition described.

The third part of this liberty is that we are not bound before God to any observance of external things which are in themselves indifferent, ("adiaphora") but that we are now at full liberty either to use or omit them. The knowledge of this liberty is very necessary to us; where it is wanting our consciences will have no rest, there will be no end of superstition. In the present day many think us absurd in raising a question as to the free eating of flesh, the free use of dress and holidays, and similar frivolous trifles, as they think them; but they are of more importance than is commonly supposed. For when once the conscience is entangled in the net, it enters a long and inextricable labyrinth, from which it is afterwards most difficult to escape. When a man begins to doubt whether it is lawful for him to use linen for sheets, shirts, napkins, and handkerchiefs, he will not long be secure as to hemp, and will at last have doubts as to tow; for he will revolve in his mind whether he cannot sup without napkins, or dispense with handkerchiefs. Should he deem a daintier food unlawful, he will afterwards feel uneasy for using loafbread and common eatables, because he will think that his body might possibly be supported on a still meaner food. If he hesitates as to a more genial wine, he will scarcely drink the worst with a good conscience; at last he will not dare to touch water if more than usually sweet and pure. In fine, he will come to this, that he will deem it criminal to trample on a straw lying in his way. For it is no trivial dispute that is here commenced, the point in debate being, whether the use of this thing or that is in accordance with the divine will, which ought to take precedence of all our acts and counsels. Here some must by despair be hurried into an abyss, while others, despising God and casting off his fear, will not be able to make a way for themselves without ruin. When men are involved in such doubts whatever be the direction in which they turn, every thing they see must offend their conscience.

Originally Posted by AC.
I do believe we are to pick up our cross and give our whole selves to God. God is the same and as yesterday.

Agreed. However, this begs the question as to the meaning of "pick up our cross and give our whole selves to God."

Originally Posted by AC.
How does God feel about ballroom dancing? I don't know, how do you think He feels about it?, I guess it's indifferent....

a glass of wine with dinner, indifferent as well -

but I do believe there are certain acitivies we can and should rule out, activities that we can speak out against, I think we should remain seperated from the world in these matters, no?
Agreed. But again, what one deems "the world" can differ considerably from what another deems "the world." This is NOT to say that one can be correct in that assessment and the other wrong. But again, Scripture must determine this as the sole and final authority in all matters of faith and practice. In the matter of adiaphora, where things are deemed BY GOD to be good in and of themselves, one may choose to abstain but another to partake. For those weaker brethren who choose to abstain, the warning is very clear to not judge the stronger brethren who have been given the freedom to enjoy all the freedom that Christ has merited for them.

Originally Posted by AC.
Natural man wants to go to the taverns and watch the sporting events and go to the clubs and surround ourselves with all kinds of temptations. It is becoming more and more difficult because as a society we are becoming less and less modest, no matter where we go we are witnesses to godlessness. Things that used to be shameful to be commited in private are now done out in the open. I do believe we should shield ourselves and it is the duty of the churches to speak out against it. I think even in Reformed circles we want to hold GOd and the world hand in hand. I do believe when we give into that we are proving that we don't truly have the fruits of repentance but can just go along with the sin and vanity of this world.
Again, I agree but with another qualification. This all sounds good on the surface UNTIL one digs under the surface to find out what one is to separate themselves from. There is a Pharisee resident in every heart and it unfortunately comes out in these type of topics where the "lists" are published as to what is godly and what is worldly. Some may be biblically warranted but others are nothing more than one's personal scruples which cannot be imposed on everyone and even more serious to judge those who don't follow the "list".

Originally Posted by AC.
Don't use Christian Liberty as an excuse to embrace the world and vein pursuits - that is not what the WC is about when it speaks of such matters.
Are you implying that I am using Christian Liberty as an excuse to embrace the world and vain pursuits? If so, could you please give specific examples where you believe I do this. grin

Originally Posted by AC.
I hope I am not coming off as disrespectful!
I haven't taken anything you have written as disrespectful. But your last statement and my question I believe needs to be addressed and/or clarified. wink

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simul iustus et peccator

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