I'm careful not to have any tone, and please let me know if I do, that might be belittling or argumentative. Let us be examples to the world on how to discuss our disagreements.
At this juncture, all is just dandy.
Now, I apologize for such a brief point, but can you please explain how you can argue that the following four statements are all true. You are correct in that I am not comprehending how you can state that all of these statements are true.
1. No action by any man will have any bearing on the salvation of any man.
2. Man DOES have a 'choice' and is wholly responsible to make that choice.
3. That choice does have a definite bearing upon one's salvation.
4. The bringing of the Gospel and a person's response to it are certainly to be considered "actions".
1. I've never written what you have in #1. However, IF I have stated this, then it was due to a typo. Put positively, every action of every man will have a definite
bearing on the salvation of a man. What you seem to be laboring under is the falsehood that Calvinists believe that men are mere 'puppets'. But nothing could be further from the truth. Men are
free agents, i.e., they are very capable and do make choices (actions). The issue is, what choices/actions are men capable of doing in their natural fallen state? Are they DEAD or simply wounded?
If we work this backwards and simplify, you are saying:
1. The action (bringing the Gospel) is a choice that has bearing upon one's salvation.
2. No action by man can have a bearing upon one's salvation.
Again, #2 is totally opposite of what I have written several times. ALL actions have a
bearing upon one's salvation. One must repent of sin(s) and believe the Gospel. God has ordained the
means as well as the
end. Repentance and faith are the result/fruit of God's sovereign work of regeneration, which is the
means unto salvation. Thus these "actions" have a "bearing" upon one's salvation for without them, salvation is impossible. Now, what has been added here in addition to predestination is the doctrine of the Fall and that of "Effectual Calling", aka: "Irresistible Grace".
Another apparent self contradiction is where you say "All these things are done most freely, i.e., without a forcing of man's will" and yet you believe in Irresistible Salvation and Unconditional Election. In fact, you probably also believe in Compatibilistic Free Will, which states that God does not coerce man to choose against his will, but rather sovereignly determines what man wills in the first place. How is "determining what a man wills" not "forcing a man's will"?
1. I do not believe in anything called, "Irresistible Salvation". Rather, I believe in "Irresistible Grace".
2. No I do not believe in "Compatibilistic Free Will" or any other kind of "free-will". I believe in "free-agency", i.e., men are more than capable of making choices... According to their nature.
3. This is worded rather poorly; sorry!
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Yes, I believe God does not "force" a man's will, i.e., no man is forced to do that which is contrary to his will, which is determined by his nature. A man in his natural fallen state will most freely choose sin but is totally incapable of choosing not to sin (Gen 6:5; 8:21; Eccl 7:29; 8:11; 9:3; Isa 64:6; Jer 13:23; 17:9; Jh 5:40; 6:44,65; Rom 3:10-18; Eph 2:1-5)
1. Do you believe that God has predestined some of Adam's fallen race to salvation and some to damnation?
2. If your answer to #1 is yes, even in part, then upon what basis did God base that predestination?
1. No, of course not. That's the whole point of Arminianism.
2. N/A
Would I be correct then, that since you deny that God has predestined some to salvation, that you totally reject any notion whatsoever of predestination? Remember, I did ask and qualified #1 in #2 above, with the phrase "
even in part".
a. If you totally reject any idea of predestination, then you are not Arminian in your theology. Classic, historical Arminianism clearly affirms that God has elected some to salvation. In the matter of damnation, it avers to agnosticism... they are not sure.
b. IF you affirm there is no predestination then what do you do with all the myriad passages of Scripture which speak of predestination, ordination, ordained, chosen, elected, etc.?? :scratch2:
c. IF you affirm that there is a scriptural doctrine of predestination, then what do you believe it teaches? I asked this question in my last reply but you haven't responded with an answer.
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