Originally Posted by alan parsonage
You did not answer the apparent conflict that Jesus and the father are one and God is in Jesus yet Jesus seems to love everyone including the unsaved eg Mark 10: 21, and instructs us to do the same. And as we are one body His is still doing the same too. Yet your position seems to be God wont really love him/them as he/they i/are not/will not be saved.
I did provide an answer by repeating the absolute truth, nowhere is it written that God loves every individual that was/is/will be. Nor is there one single text that Jesus loves "all men" without exception. Thus the Father and the Son are one which eliminates any possibility that there is any contradiction within the Godhead. Now, let's briefly take your unfounded premise that Jesus loved all men and put it to the LOGICAL and Scripture test which you admittedly are incapable of grasping, i.e. IF God and/or Jesus hate even one person, then the "all" cannot mean "all" without exception. So, we have the inspired passage in Mark 4:10-12 in which Jesus answers His disciples' question as to why He taught in parables:

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Mark 4:10-12 (KJV) 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.(cf. Matt 13:11-16; Jh 12:40)
How do you reconcile the fact that the Lord Christ preached in parables so that [Grk hina; in order that, purpose] they should not be saved... except to those whom it is given to see, hear and comprehend the Gospel.? In Matthew we have the same truth expressed in another way:

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Matthew 11:25-27 (KJV) 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].
Yes, the Father and the Son are one and there is no contradiction between them. Do these passages support that God loves all men without exception? The Father deliberately withholds the means of grace from the overwhelming majority of mankind and Jesus the Son teaches in parables in order that what the Father has ordained comes to pass. Before Jacob and Esau where born, in eternity it is written that God loved Jacob and hated [Grk: miseo Esau. The reason given why God loved the one and hated the other is so His election (unto salvation) would come to pass. So... are you going to maintain that God loved Esau who God says He hated and predestined that he, Esau, would be cast into hell and eternal punishment? In Eph 1:4-6 it is written that God from all eternity set His love upon the elect (predestination) in Christ unto the adoption of sons. God's love is incomprehensible for the very reason that it is discriminatory. Likewise, grace given is salvation infallibly applied to those whom God loved from all eternity. And, Jesus was sent to redeem all those whom the Father gave Him... NOT "for the world" = every man, woman and child who has ever lived, is living or will live in the future. They question you are in need of asking is not "How could God hate anyone?", but rather, "How could God love anyone?" And once the Spirit of God Who is one with the Father and the Son has revealed to you how odious you are in the nostrils of Almighty God, you will then undoubtfully ask, "How could God ever set His love upon me?"

You would have to seek permission to publish the article by Dr. David Engelsma; THE ‘WORLD’ OF JOHN 3:16 DOES NOT MEAN ‘ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION’.

My views are those held by the Reformers and Puritans and which are found in the great Confessions and Catechisms of the Protestant Reformation. They are not unique to me. I was 'taught' what you believe at present but rather quickly dismissed them after reading the Bible over and over again, comparing Scripture with Scripture; aka: The Analogy of Faith". And, I learned one of the most foundational axioms of biblical hermeneutics..... CONTEXT determines the meaning of words.

Originally Posted by alan parsonage
One further point is I believe that 10 x used expression. (so very important then ?), 'the Foundation of The World (kosmos)' refers to the the Abrahamic Covenant, so is consistent with your view that Kosmos can mean, at least in part, the elect (kosmos) '- they being able to come into existence by this covenant. Hence the Foundation of the World. Do you agree?
No nope The "foundation of the world" typically refers to the creation of the physical earth. Where do you get the idea that it refers to the Abrahamic Covenant??? scratch1


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