The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum "The Da Vinci Code"

Dave

I agree with others when they said you were too apologetic in your e-mail.
I also believe Pilgrim summed it up nicely when he said: "2) As to your Pastor's reply, I could best sum it up in these few words. It seems that he is wanting to put a screen door in a submarine. I think you know the consequences of doing so."

However that being the case saying something like that with out giving sound reasoning for saying it (not that you would), is not very convincing.

As I read your pastor’s response to you, unless I miss my guess his basic beliefs on the fundamentals of the faith are orthodox. But although his reasons for giving courses such as these are misguided, they never the less SEEM sincere.

Therefore, you might want to give him good reason why his reasoning for providing courses like this are (as Pilgrim puts it) “wanting to put a screen door in a submarine.”
Some here might disagree with me on that point, but in my way of thinking until we have done everything reasonable to make sure the truth is understood, we haven’t helped the situation.
If after you have done so and it hasn't made a difference then so be it, but don't let the opportunity pass you by.

This of course is all assuming I understand you pastor's responce.

Tom

What makes you say that? I mean, he's allowing the Da Vinci Code to be discussed as if we are allowed to disagree over it!


And he is sincerely wrong!

Janean,

Nice to see you around again!

I will pray for you as you deal with your church. May God give you confidence, courage, and wisdom as you stand for God's truth.

Amen and Yes I agree fully but I have to admit that I haven't been able to put my faith fully in God yet. I'm not ashamed to say this either because even Mosses had his doubts. I am sincere in my prayers when I ask God to help me in every thing I do. But I still fear I suppose. I have been firm in my convictions with other members of the body though and I do share my reformed views often. I do believe God is continually strengthening me and molding me to stand firm in my belief's but I also try to be careful to encourage and build up the body and not tear it down. I myself am still turning to the milk bottle so I worry about being confidant in my teaching. I'm still learning, but thanks be to God that he has given me the Highway. So I just want to thank everyone for your inputs and prayers and I only ask that you continue to pray for my church in hopes that God will have his hand on it and encourage the body to mature in Christ and to keep their eye's upon the mountain and away from the golden calf. God bless you all.

Y.B.I.C,

Dave.

Thank you Marie. It's a lot of fun having this online spiritual support. I never have left here, I just do not have a lot of time to hang online. With 2 young children, homeschooling and some work, etc. it leaves me very little free time. Thanks for your support! I really do appreciate it.

I heard Erwin Lutzer on WMBI the other evening on their Open Line program talking about the Da Vinci Code. He has written a book against it and he was discussing this on the show. Sounds interesting. You'll have to look it up on Amazon.com - The Da Vinci Deception by Erwin Lutzer.

Semper

You may have noticed that I did provide a quote from Dave's pastor, however I edited it out after thinking about it. I thought the better way of answering your question was to ask you a similar question, because I haven't noticed anything to show other wise.

What makes you think Dave's pastor isn't basicly orthodox in his foundational beliefs?

I believe his reasoning is wrong, because many people are not mature enough to handle the poison that he is allowing to come into his congregation through things like "The DaVinci Code". Also the fact that he allowed this to happen without at least debunking its fallacy is something that needs serious addressing. But I don't want to unfairly read too much into what he said, without being absolutely sure.

There is an old saying in the banking industry.
"The best way to know a forgery when we see it is not to study it, but to study the real thing so much that a forgery will be recognized."
I do however believe that mature believers who are in the business of equipping the saints should learn as much about the forgeries as possible. Someone like James White would be ill-equipped for debate if he didn't know the enemy’s material. In his case he is both very knowledgeable of the Scriptures and the maturial of those who he debates against.

I also would say that this pastor hasn't revealed enough about himself to know one way or another about his beliefs. Perhaps Dave could fill us in on a little more of what his pastor actually believes? Something tells me that if Dave's pastor actually believed in things like were shown in the courses Dave would have left a long time ago.
But regardless of his beliefs, he has been irresponsible.

I also agree that even if he is sincere, he is sincerely wrong. However, I believe every one of us has been sincerely wrong at one time or another. I thank the Lord for people who cared enough about me in a few instances where they patiently did what it took to show me how sincerely wrong I was in those cases.
If they had just condemned me or walked away, I might not have realized my error.

Tom

A good book against DVC is:

Gospel Code: Novel Claims about Jesus, Mary Magdalene and Da Vinci

Author: Ben Witherington, III

This past week has been very good learning experience for myself. To my pastors defense, they are very intelligent and sincere in their ministry. I have tremendous respect for them and all the hard work they do for our church. I personally feel that our church needs at least two more pastors.

With saying that, I have come to some conclusions. I see that my theology differs from my pastors. I have been led to build my foundation on a Sovereign God approach. I am very comfortable with my reformed theology. I also see myself able to hold to my convictions more without the responsibility of the church on my shoulders. I see my ministry as a teacher and if there are people who are offended by my teaching they simply don't have to attend my classes. So I see that I have a lot more freedom in that respect. I also have decided to stay and carry on with my mission at my church. There are people there that are interested in learning more and being devout Christians who are passionate about good bible study. The wonderful thing about my church is that it does provide an opportunity for me to have my own class. So I have decided after much prayer to concentrate on starting a continual class where I can teach a reformed view.

My passion for Sola Scriptura is really where I can see myself starting to be seperated from most others in their viewpoint.
Scripture alone is the inerrant rule of the church's life, but the evangelical church today has separated Scripture from its authoritative function. In practice, the church is guided, far too often, by the culture. Therapeutic technique, marketing strategies, and the beat of the entertainment world often have far more to say about what the church wants, how it functions and what it offers, than does the Word of God. Pastors have neglected their rightful oversight of worship, including the doctrinal content of the music. As biblical authority has been abandoned in practice, as its truths have faded from Christian consciousness, and as its doctrines have lost their saliency, the church has been increasingly emptied of its integrity, moral authority and direction.

I'm finding out that my Christianity centers on scripture. All that I'm about is grounded on the bible. I do not believe that the bible is hard to understand at all. I do not believe that we need to try to relate biblical teaching to the time that we're living in. I believe that the times and culture should always follow the true message of the bible. I believe that we should read the bible with the understanding that it is the infallable word of our sovereign Lord and that it is true through and through. So this will always be my main focus in my class. I see though that I have alot going against me. I am not very charasmatic, I'm young, my speach isn't very clear, I don't have a good memory, I don't have a good edjucation and I'm not good looking. But I have to accept that God doesn't call the qualified but rather qualifies whome he calls, amen? So I have a lot of work ahead of me, but I see this is what God is calling me to do. So prayers are always welcome and God bless you.

Y.B.I.C,

Dave.

Dave

I take it then that your pastor does not hold to all 5 points of the doctrines of grace, am I reading you correct?
Or does he hold to the doctrines of grace, but some how is under the illusion that holding these kind of courses is compatible with them?

Tom

No, my pastors do not hold to or preach the five points. I have heard my pastor preach on soveriegnty and I know He believes in assurance and he will comment on our reformed traditions, but he is not reformed in his teaching.

Dave.

Dave

Then I am not all that surprised that he would allow things like these to arise.

Tom