I am trying to get to the bottom of this. Does Paul mean:
1. Knowledge of revealed truths (such as who was lying to the Holy Ghost about the amount of money they donated (Acts 5:3)), or,
2. A personal, familiar knowledge of Jesus Christ, or,
3. Knowledge of erstwhile unknown / unclear doctrine / counsel of God?
Some languages have different words for different kinds of knowledge (e.g. in German, "kennen" bespeaks familiar knowledge of a person (such as a friend), whereas "wissen" refers to factual knowledge). Are there any such distinctions in the Greek used to write the passage in question?
Seeing that it is connected to the gift of prophecy, I take it to mean contexually, a supernatural knowledge similar to revelation. In my opinion, this knowledge ceased at the closing of the canon.
Fred
"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns
The importance of this is huge. If it can be shown to NOT be familiar, personal knowledge of the Lord, then the continuationists have no support from 1 Cor 13:12, because the apostle would be comparing an imperfect state of one kind of knowledge (i.e. knowledge of special revelation) with a perfect state of a different kind of knowledge (i.e. familiar acquaintance with the Lord) in that verse!!!
I hope everyone can understand this, because it is VITAL in the cessationist-continuationist debate to show what is meant by knowledge.
In the meantime, why have so many commentators overlooked the fact that the earthly gifts of faith and hope are said to be ABIDING in contrast to tongues, prophecies and knowledge (whatever it is), yet faith and hope are not to be found in the next life?
Just to expand on the faith and hope comment, I mean that these two virtues, both of which cease at the end of the age, are said to be abiding in contrast with tongues, prophecies, and "knowledge". This, to me, makes it even harder for the continuationists to argue their case.
I believe you are making some astute observations. To follow up with your comments about knowledge. The gift is describe in the earlier portion of 1 Cor. 12 in verse 8 where it is coupled with "a word of wisdom." Match that with the fact Paul lists knowledge with two other significant New Covenant gifts, prophecy and tongues and I believe that Paul is discussing a unique spiritual gift synonymous with these two other revelatory gifts. Hence, all three of these gifts had a purpose in the impartation of revelation to the NT Church. Once that purpose was completed, ie, the formation of the Canon and the maturity of the Church to function on earth as the Body of Christ, those gifts ceased their operation. There was no longer a need for them.
Fred
"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns
flunky1 said: Just to expand on the faith and hope comment, I mean that these two virtues, both of which cease at the end of the age, are said to be abiding in contrast with tongues, prophecies, and "knowledge". This, to me, makes it even harder for the continuationists to argue their case.
I agree; in fact, that's really what's convinced me that the miraculous gifts must have ceased.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
I now note that a commentary by Jamieson, Faussett and Brown, while generally supporting the point on the abiding nature of faith and hope as contratsed with the transient charismata, nonetheless argues that faith, as trust in God, and hope, as in ongoing expectation of greater and greater joys in the eternal state, are NOT transient gifts. However, it is temporal faith and temporal hope as defined elsewhere in the New Testament that Paul is referring to in 1 Cor 13:13, because if we apply JFB's logic to the 3 charismata mentioned, then in a sense prophecies, tongues, and knowledge, described as temporary in 1 Cor 13:8, would also be eternally abiding.
The apostle is making a contrast between very transient gifts and those that abide with the church.
I think the toughest thing for people to appreciate is that while it is very true that believers will know things much better in the next life and see the Lord face to face, it does not follow that this truth is what 1 Cor 13:12 refers to! And we must concede, the glass (mirror) metaphor makes it easy for continuationists to argue for the perfect clarity of sight that can only be the case in the eternal state, given the difficulty or obscurity of much of the Bible. We can address the continuationists on this argument thus:
1. Nobody could deny that a darkened mirror gives an incomplete picture of the object being looked at; and I am sure it is incompleteness rather than lack of perspicuity that is being spoken of in the darkened mirror metaphor. How can we know? Because in all the sentences before and after the mirror metaphor, it is knowledge "in part" that is being spoken of. With the completion of the canon, there is full knowledge of the whole counsel of God to the church. The man of God can have access to ALL of God's counsel now.
2. If we say the Word of God is a darkened mirror, what we are really saying is that it is impossible to glean a truly clear picture of any doctrine or particular counsel of God. It means vast swathes of Scripture can never be unlocked in this world, in which case, why would God bother giving us this impossible-to-fully-glean message at all? This is not to deny that there are many parts of the Bible that are DIFFICULT to be understood - the Bible itself concedes this! But there is no passage that CANNOT most definitely be interpreted and understood, clearly and with full perspicuity.
Thus 1 Cor 13:12 teaches, "For now (in the apostolic age) we see the counsel of God incompletely (seeing the outline of it, perhaps even most of it, but not in complete detail), but then (when canon is complete) a complete picture of the whole of God's counsel will appear (like our own reflection, "face to face", in a perfect mirror); in other words, now I (the man of God) know God's message to man in part; but then (upon completion of canon), the man of God shall be able to know the whole counsel of God, just as also he is able to see himself completely in a clear mirror."
To close, let us never think we shall know God with the same completeness He knows us; surely eternity will be enjoyed in ever increasing knowledge of the unsearchable riches of Himself!
For what it is worth, this is what I wrote in a post to a charismatic a few years ago on this subject. Maybe it will be of some insight for you.
Quote
I understand the perfect as the completed canon, and I do so for a couple of reason.
First, "teleion" is better rendered "the completed," rather than "the perfect." During the time of the apostles, the divine revelation of prophesy and knowledge would still be in transmission. God was still in the process of giving revelation to the church through the apostles and the prophets. However, I believe Paul had in mind that a new covenant document, just like the OT, would be provided by the Lord. Thus, the completed revelation of God's New Covenant revelation would eventually come to the Christians.
Furthermore, the illustrations Paul uses are analogous to this idea of partial revelation in comparison to completed revelation. Paul uses three major illustration:
(1) A child replaced by an adult (13:11);
(2) the hazy replaced by the clear (13:12) (by the way, I understand the phrase "face to face" not to refer to seeing Jesus in his full glory, but as a analogy of a person being able to see a clear reflection, as opposed to a hazy reflection);
(3) Imprecise knowing replaced by precise knowing (13:12). The whole point of Paul's words in 13:8-12 is to inform us that these gifts had a specific purpose for a stated period of time. Eventually, they will come to an end. I think tongues ended at the destruction of Jerusalem, and prophecy and knowledge at the finishing of the NT canon.
Fred
"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns
The apostle speaks of something being partial and contrasts that with it being "perfect", but surely - as your point confirms - complete, rather than perfect, is the antithesis of in part!!! Great post Fred!
I think knowledge in this particular text means knowledge that wont profit us in the kingdom of heaven. Beacause it says it will PASS AWAY . The knowledge in the kingdom of heaven will never pass away. It goes on to say For we know in part and we prohesy in part. So I think it is now talking about knowledge of God. It says ... in part , meaning we obviously dont know all the things of God and wont until we reach heavens gates . The proof of this knowledge that we cannot know and we will then know is proved by the next verse ... but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears this is saying nothing perfect will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then finally one more proof that we have not all knowledge now and we will have plent if not all ( I dont know if we will ever be all knowing) is the end of verse 12 .. Now I know in part then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
I hope I have helped you out. I am very young Christian and I am still learning.
No, I think "knowledge" in this passage refers to the gift of supernaturally-revealed information, rather like the gifts of tongues and prophecy, which Acts 2:17 links back to Joel 2:28-31, which in turn is linked to Numbers 12:6.
Knowledge of facts, present and future, thus gleaned could be described as the partial counsel of God, which fits with the language of 1 Cor 13:13.
Accordingly, verse 12 would mean that these three modes of supernaturally revealed information would cease, and verse 13 would mean that the actual end-product of this revelation would be incomplete or piecemeal in nature. Verse 12 focuses on mode; verse 13 focuses on facts revealed from the modes.
Finally, please note that the passage is referring to the temporal world, not the temporal plus eternal worlds. This is clear because faith and hope, both of which do not continue in the eternal world, are said to be abiding compared to the gifts of tongues, "knowledge", and prophecy. However, I think all knowledge will be revealed in the eternal world, so even if some of it were to "vanish away" in this world, it would be made known in the next (Luke 12:2). Nevertheless, "knowledge" in 1 Cor 13:8 is contextually an extraordinary revelatory gift of the Spirit.
