OK I am going to ask about Double Predestination. Now if you dont believe in predestination at all I still want oyu to respond. Ok
Nowhere in the BIble does it directly say God predestined some for eternal damnation. BUt if God predestined some for heaven and he knew they would be saved by his eternal grace and then he also knew those that wouldnt respond to him. Therefore isnt that basically predestinging those who will not be csaved to Hell. John 12 :37-41.I want to hear everyones Calvinist , non Calvinist , anyones views so that we can have open discussion that we all might be edified.
Nowhere in the BIble does it directly say God predestined some for eternal damnation.
Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction..."
"Even the wicked for the day of evil" are foreordained to that purpose. Romans nine is an especially compelling passage dealing with God's purposes for men - both vessels of wrath and vessels of honor.
What I was saying was it doesnt come out and say he predestined them for hell. Just like that like those words. I agree with what you are saying . I believe in Double Predestination. More thoughts its open to all.
I think it's important to specify that God never helps anybody sin, or forces them to sin, or makes them sin more. I don't feel comfortable with the term "double predestination" because it seems to imply this (i.e. the Lord works in their life to send that person to hell the same way he does with the elect to send them to heaven.)
Biblically, the Lord ordains (and "predestines," depending on how you use the word) everything, but in the case of the unregenerate, to be predestined to hell just means they'll be "left alone," so to speak.
You may wish to read this article by W.T.G. Shedd. I think you'll find it helpful.
Here's an excerpt from it.
Quote
God ‘foreordains’ and makes certain two things that unquestionably ‘come to pass,’ namely, the everlasting holiness and life of some men, and the everlasting sin and death of some men; ‘yet so as thereby God is not the author of sin; nor is violence done to the will of the creature; nor is the liberty of second causes taken away, but rather established’. When God predetermined from eternity not to restrain and prevent ‘Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and all the people of Israel’, from crucifying his beloved Son, but to leave them to their own wicked inclination and voluntary action in the case, he made this crucifixion a certainty, but not a necessity, as is evinced by the ‘woe’ pronounced upon them by the Son of God. Luke 22:22. Men with hearts and dispositions full of hatred toward the Saviour of the world, if left to themselves are infallibly certain to cry, ‘Crucify him; crucify him’. John 19: 6-15.
God is sovereign.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Henry said: I don't feel comfortable with the term "double predestination" because it seems to imply this (i.e. the Lord works in their life to send that person to hell the same way he does with the elect to send them to heaven.)
Biblically, the Lord ordains (and "predestines," depending on how you use the word) everything, but in the case of the unregenerate, to be predestined to hell just means they'll be "left alone," so to speak.
So a lost person who dies and goes to hell were they predestined for nothing? Or are what then is there purpose ?
Henry said: I don't feel comfortable with the term "double predestination" because it seems to imply this (i.e. the Lord works in their life to send that person to hell the same way he does with the elect to send them to heaven.)
Henry,
It is true that God doesn't "predestinate" the elect and the reprobate in exactly the same manner. In the case of the elect, there is a "positive" intervention by God in that the Holy Spirit creates a new nature within them, thus radically transforming them which enables them to know, love and obey God. In the case of the non-elect, (reprobate) God predestinates them to the end to which they will naturally come due to their sinful natures. Providentially, God is active in their lives too but only to accentuate their depravity; i.e., he uses their evil dispositions for His glory and their further damnation. The classic example of this is in the crucifixion of Christ. (cf. Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:27, 28) Those that physically participated in the accusation, trial and crucifixion of the Lord Christ were predestination/ordained that they should do so, exact in every detail. Yet, they did it most willingly and without compulsion.
R.C. Sproul has one of the best articles on this subject here: Double Predestination.
And, there are quite a number of articles on the broad subject of Predestination here: Predestination Index.
I read Pink's article on Reprobation. It is basically fine, however I also read James Pettigrew Boyce's summary on that topic. He was the founder of Southern Theological seminary in Louisville and graduate of Princeton, 1852.
Boyce brought out the point that the way God uses to harden men is really meant to bring them to repentance. The mighty miracles that Pharoah witnessed should have caused him to repent.
Also the verse '...fitted for destruction...', has been explained by Dr. Hershel Hobbs, now deceased, who was active in the SBC, as being in the reflexive voice. This means the vessels are doing their own 'fitting' as well as God 'fitting' them. One verse in Exodus says, '...Pharoah hardened his heart...' Now Hobbs who believed in free will, that is that every person has the capacity and freedom to choose Christ, tried to use the Greek voice of this verb to show that God does not predestine people to Hell. Also the phrase, '...endured with patience and long suffering...' meant that the people who went to Hell went of their own free will and that they were not predestined.
Also the verse in I Timothy 2:4 is interpreted by some Calvinists such as John Piper (Bethlehem Baptist church, Minneapolis)as meaning all people universally or 'the whole human race' as John Calvin said about the extent of the atonement near the end of his life.
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