Psalm 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.
Proverbs 6:16-19 16There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, 19a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers
Malachi 2:16 "For the man who hates and divorces, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless."
Psalm 5:4-6 4For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. 5The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. 6You destroy those who speak lies; the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
John_C said: I think some of these discussions confuse the common grace type of love that God has to mankind, and his special love to those who belong to Him.
I think Dr. John Gerstner's article explains it very well.
I think that there is too much confusion today about God's love to use "God loves the sinner but hates the sin." What exactly are we trying to say by that statement anyway? Isn't it usually used to excuse away some sort of sin and say it isn't any big deal? Also, it's pitting love against hate, as though they are always direct opposites.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Since last year's Ligonier Conference, the question brings to mind the talk given by John MacArthur on the Love of God. I'm pasting in the notes of MacArthur's talk taken by my friend ????? (I'd better not give out the name). I think with the question, neither a 'yes' or a 'no' is sufficient without further explanation.
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5. John MacArthur—“An Everlasting Love: The Love of God.”
Most people, including Christians, do not understand the love of God. On a simplistic level, everyone is pleased with and comfortable with the idea that God is love.
a. God’s love for himself. This is intratrinitarian love. John 14:31—Jesus loves the Father, obeys him even to going to the cross. John 15:9-10—perfect love demonstrated in perfect obedience. John 17:23, 26—perfect love from all eternity. John 5:19-27—everything the Father has he gives to the Son; the Son reciprocally holds back nothing. John 6:36ff—God’s love for sinners is secondary to his love for his Son.
b. God’s love for humanity. God does love men and women and there is an indiscriminate, unconditional love extended to all people, necessary because God’s nature is love. Matthew 5:44—love your enemies in order that you may be sons of your Father. Unqualified love. Mark 10:17-23—Jesus had a love for the rich young ruler (verse 21), yet this man did not enter the kingdom of God. God loves those who don’t love him, manifested by common grace and the staying of wrath and judgment. God has compassion, he pities the lost. Jonah 5:11, Jeremiah 48. God incessantly warns man, thus demonstrating his love. John 6:40—the divine Savior is revealed to men indiscriminately. Psalm 48—an invitation to taste and see that the Lord is good. There is an extensive gospel offer. Those who refuse to come are guilty.
c. God’s love for his own. Though God genuinely loves the world (common grace, compassion, warning, gospel opportunity), there is a limit in degree. He especially loves and saves believers. John 13:1—“having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.” In one sense, he loved them to the full, to the end of his capacity to love them; in another sense, he loved them to the last. A saving love, a covenant love. Ezekiel 16:1-63—God was faithful to his covenant despite Israel’s infidelity. His love is complete, saving, and eternal. Why did God not choose to love everyone in this way? “Why” is out of bounds regarding God’s sovereign purposes, but a hint might be in his glory. God’s love is not separated from or dominant over his other attributes. It glorifies God to do as he has done. Romans 9.
IMO, MacArthur gives a good take on the tension of God's love.
Last edited by John_C; Tue Feb 08, 200510:13 PM.
John Chaney
"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ."Colossians 2:7
Since last year's Ligonier Conference, the question brings to mind the talk given by John MacArthur on the Love of God. I'm pasting in the notes of MacArthur's talk taken by my friend ????? (I'd better not give out the name). I think with the question, neither a 'yes' or a 'no' is sufficient without further explanation.
John,
After reading the quotes you included, I have to say I'm not sure how you can say MacArthur answers with neither a 'yes' or a 'no'. There may be some more quotes from your material that you did not include, but unless they clarify more of what he means, I would concluded that MacArthur is saying that God loves all people, but he loves the elect more (unto salvation). What kind of love it is that does not save someone from Hell. I see nowhere in these quotes God's displeasure with the non-saved. I've always thought that Jonathan Edwards' "Sinners in the Hand of Angry God" (http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/sermons/sinners.html) does a good job of expressing God's displeasure with those who are not saved. Even in solidly reformed churches, such directness in this day and age is rare. Also, as for God's love shown in "common grace", there is no question that the non-elect benefit from common grace, but is it really because God loves them. In Romans 9:22-23 it says God puts up with the sins of the non-elect for the sake of the elect. It doesn't say that God endures the sins of the non-elect because he loves them. As someone else said in another thread (don't recall where), even though the non-elect are enjoying benefits of common grace, they are just increasing the judgement against them when they die.
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What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
I guess we probably need to define our definitions of "love" more precisely. I see MacArthur trying to do this and, hence, your "neither a 'yes' or 'no'", but I get the feeling we may not be on the same page with our ideas of "love".
