Obviously, everything from Rome is not wrong by default. The problem is that if the answer to the Saturday/Sunday question is a decision from Rome, then the next question is, "Does Rome has the authority to make the decision?". I think that most of you would answer "no". <br><br>If that is so, then by continuing to not set aside Saturday as God's day, we make ourselves unrepentant sinners. <br><br>So, please, somebody tell me in a simple way that I can understand, Why Sunday instead of Saturday?<br>If your answer is that it came from Rome, then tell me how Rome came to have the authority.
They both say "The Seventh Day". The 7th Day would be Friday at sundown to Saturday sundown ("from even to even"). <br>Even in our secular calendars, Saturday is now considered by all to be the seventh day. Sunday is the first day. <br>Furthermore, the Jews celebrate the Sabbath as the 7th Day. <br><br>I think the issue I have with Edwards is he fails to identify the Sabbath with creation...or at least he does not emphasize it enough. The Sabbath was given to Adam as the 7th Day in Gen 2:1-3. And in Exodus 20:8-11, the commandment has its support given by that creation decree. <br><br>Steve<br>
In reply to:[color:"blue"]Why Sunday instead of Saturday?
Okay... because "Saturday" is not inherent to the Fourth Commandment. All it says is that "one day in seven" is to be observed as the Sabbath. No specific day was given. To Israel, however, the Lord commanded them to observe a specific day for a specific purpose. Israel was living in the "types and shadows" of that which was to come and be fulfilled in Christ Jesus and His atonement. Thus, the Fourth Commandment, being of the perpetual Moral Law of God, was not abrogated but continued. But, since Christ had accomplished all that was necessary to establish the new covenant, the old order of the Theocratic Israel passed away and Saturday with it. The N.T. Church then began coming together on the "First Day of the Week", aka: "The Lord's Day", as being the day in which the final earthly purpose of God had been fulfilled in Christ Jesus. So, there it is in a nutshell. The Christian church hardly has kept Sunday only because, "that's the way it has always been". But there is some truth to that nonetheless, for the Apostles and Disciples of the Lord Christ began meeting on Sunday and thus it has been the way it has always been done, but not out of some man-made tradition, but upon biblical precept.
Those "too long and convoluted" articles which you feel are beyond your comprehension do a satisfactory job of exegeting all the relevant Scriptures, and expounding upon them to establish this long-standing practice of meeting on the Lord's Day. Perhaps you would be up to trying an article not so long or complex, as is Dr. Francis N. Lee's book, The Covenantal Sabbath, written by B.B. Warfield? If so, here is the link to that excellent article:
It actually says "the Seventh Day", not one day in seven. And if it is tied to creation, as it is from Gen 2:1-3, I'm not sure how it can be tied solely to Theocratic Israel.<br><br>Also, the "first day of the week" is only mentioned 8 times in the NT. <br>1. 6 times in the gospels, Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1,2,9. Luke 23:56, 24:1, and John 20:1,19. None of these refer to a change of the sabath.<br>2. 1 time in Acts. Acts 20:7-8. This is the only instance recorded in the NT where a religious meeting was held on the first day. Also, we must remember, this occured on SATURDAY night! The only night there is to the Biblical first day is Saturday night, as the first day is Saturday night through Sunday night. So, this meeting went from Saturday sundown to midnight. <br>3. 1 Cor 16:1-2. This refers to a private collection, the opposite of a public collectcion! Each believer was to "lay by himself in store"...i.e. by one's self, at home. <br><br>None of these times is it referred to as "The Lord's Day".<br><br>Steve C<br>
Great point - certainly not everything Rome has done is wrong. However, when Rome creates mandates without Biblical support, these must be called into question and ultimately rejected. <br>For example, praying to saints, purgatory, adoration, and Mary-worship. None of these has Biblical support. Similarly, Rome fully admits that having Sunday as the Lord's day has no Biblical support. In fact, they use this as support of the "Church" having authority over the Bible, that they changed the worship from Saturday to Sunday.<br><br>Steve
Agreed friend. Except that first day gatherings can be found in the scriptures. Mandated? No, but the practice is found in scripture. I agree we cannot bind upon others things not found in scripture. <br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william
What day did God begin to create? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/evilgrin.gif" alt="evilgrin" title="evilgrin[/img] Can you be sure that it was on a "Monday"? All the Decalogue says is, "the seventh day". Again, where in the DECALOGUE, which is perpetual, being the Moral Law of God, does it specifically say "Saturday" is to be the "seventh day"? We have to look elsewhere, i.e., to the ceremonial law to find the specific day given to Israel.
Once again, I defer to Jonathan Edwards' three sermons on the "Perpetuity and Change of the Sabbath", B.B. Warfield's article on "The Foundations of the Sabbath in the Word of God" and Dr. Francis Nigel Lee's book, The Covenantal Sabbath. If those three sources are not convincing enough to establish that the Sabbath is perpetually to be observed for all ages until Christ comes and that at the coming of Christ it has been changed to Sunday, the first day of the week, then I have little confidence that anything "I" could say will be of any weight. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]
OK folks! No one laugh at me please, but am I understanding this correctly, that we still must observe a sabbath day? I honestly have not thought or heard much on the subject until now.<br><br>One scripture did come to mind though. "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or "sabbaths", (emphasis mine...of course) which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ." Colossians 2:16 NKJV <br><br>Hopefully I have not taken anything out of context, if so, my apologies and I'd appreciate the correction[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bash.gif" alt="bash" title="bash[/img] [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bif.gif" alt="bif" title="bif[/img] if needed...just trying to understand some thangs...knowwhati'msayin?!? Thanks.
Thredrice,<br><br>No, I don't think you took anything out of context UNLESS you are thinking that "sabbaths" refers to THE "Sabbath" as set forth in the Decalogue. What Paul is speaking about in that context are the "festivals" which were also called "sabbaths". Since the Fourth Commandment is immoveably wedged between nine great moral commandments, one would be very hard pressed to exegetically show that it can be extricated and made to be a ceremonial mandate, which passed with the nation of Israel. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/evilgrin.gif" alt="evilgrin" title="evilgrin[/img] Thus, the commandment to keep the Sabbath, of necessity, along with the other nine commandments, must be perpetual. It was Paul's own personal practice and his "command" that Christians do that which is acceptable on the "first day of the week", which he also implies was the regular meeting day of all the churches. (1Cor 16:2)<br><br>In His Grace,
Gotcha[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img]... I'll have to admit that I did think that "sabbaths" meant THE SABBATH. So now that I understand (kinda); the discussion is over whether or not Sat. or Sun. is the actual sabbath day or if a particular day is even specified at all, correct? So I'm assuming the real matter is that we MUST keep A day holy unto the Lord. Right?!? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]<br><br>And all the board members said.... "This kids' got a lot to learn" [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/frustrated.gif" alt="frustrated" title="frustrated[/img]<br>
Well, the discussion for some is whether the day has changed from Saturday to Sunday, e.g., Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah Witnesses, and some Christians, etc. For others, especially currently, there is much objection to the Fourth Commandment even being binding at all on Christians, including the other nine Commandments given to Moses, e.g., NCT, et al. And for others there is the issue of application, e.g., what is legitimate activity on the Sabbath. So, there is a wide variety of disagreement over various issues. Historically, there were basically two groups/issues that were in dispute. Most all the Reformers, Puritans, etc., held that the Fourth Commandment was part of the Moral Law, perpetual and binding upon Christians, no less than the commandment to not kill or to not take the name of the Lord in vain. Then there were some, e.g., John Bunyan, who believed that the Sabbath was not binding upon Christians, YET, still maintained that Sunday should be observed for various other reasons. Those were the "good old days". But now, it seems that anything to do with "law" is found to be objectionable. It is a confusing labyrinth to many. And this is why we are living in perilous times. So, my best advice is: "Be careful out there! " [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img]
Pilgrim<br><br>There is also a book written by Henry Soltau, called "The Tabernacle, the Priesthood, and the Offerings" that has a wonderful chapter on the Sabbath. It shows as you said the types and shadows of the rest not only WE have in Christ , but that Christ is God's rest.<br><br>This book is such a wonderful book on the tabernacle and how every thing in the Tabernacle pointed to Christ, all the way down to the pins and cords. My favorite is the chapter of the Breastplate of the High Priest...........it is such a beautiful picture of unity with diversity, and God's electing atonement.<br><br> He live around the early 1800's and was an attorney who gave up his practice to study the scriptures. He also has one on the furniture of the tabernacle and how each piece is Christ.
Oh come on, Pilgrim, there is NO disagreement in Christian circles over the Sabbath! We all think exactly alike on this point! HAHAHA! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/cheers.gif" alt="cheers" title="cheers[/img]<br>Have a great Resurrection Day (Easter), all!<br>Steve
Linda,<br><br>I haven't personally read that book by Henry Saltau, but as an aside and by apology in going off-topic [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/evilgrin.gif" alt="evilgrin" title="evilgrin[/img], it was my pleasure to sit under the teaching of Henry's grandson many years ago. He taught a course on Evangelism and it was a blessing to my soul. "Like Grandfather like grandson"! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,
Dear Pilgrim,<br>Thank you for giving me a synopsis of your position on the Sabbath. You have been most indulgent with my impatience with your links to more detailed writings. <br><br>I know that these points have been mentioned already, but I don’t think that they have been addressed. I still must disagree with you on issue if the commandment is to keep a particular day of the week holy or simply 1 of 7. <br><br>Exodus 20:9-11 says: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. <br><br>Since this passage repeatedly refers specifically to the seventh day, I do not understand how it could be interpreted that the seventh day could be any day. <br><br>As to the question of how do we know which day is the seventh day when God rested after creating the universe, the answer is simple. The establishment of the Sabbath day on Saturday dates back to when Moses was literally on speaking terms with God. There is not any room for questioning if the Israelites got the right day because if they had such an important thing wrong, it would have come up during one of the conversations between God and Moses. <br><br>I have been reading this thread and do not find any references where Jesus changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.<br><br>Please tell me where I am wrong. I go to church on Sunday and this issue has bothered me for years.<br><br><br>
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