Unfortunately, it's not that simple! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] That's why I have tried to refer you to other works which have already been written and present, what I believe to be an indisputable position that not only has the Sabbath been perpetually observed from Adam; long before Moses received the Decalogue, but also that it was changed from the Mosaic "Saturday", to the Christian "Lord's Day" (Sunday). The amount of biblical evidence is incredibly large and I simply don't have time nor does this Forum have the space required to present all this material. You asked for a simplified synopsis, which I tried to give you. But if you are now looking for "proof", then once again, I will offer the articles on The Highway's website for your perusal.<br><br>Dr. Lee dedicates a chapter to the Sabbath from Christ (Pentecost) through the N.T. era which is very thorough, and without rival. You can read it here: THE NEW COVENANTAL SABBATH<br><br>In His Grace,
Saturday (the seventh day of the week) is the Jewish Sabbath. The commandment to keep it holy is part of the Mosaic Law. Christians are not obligated to observe any part of the Law of Moses. <br>As far as Christians are concerned, every day is the Lord's day. We choose to worship on Sunday because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday (the first day of the week). Also, Paul told Christians to put aside money on the first day of the week. (1 Cor. 16:2) If Christian want to use another day (any day) as their "go to church day" there is nothing in the Bible that forbids it.<br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Christians are not obligated to observe any part of the Law of Moses.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Can I conclude from this statement that you embrace NCT (New Covenant Theology)?<br><br>If Christians are not obligated to observe any part of the Law of Moses, are Christians then at liberty to practice idolatry?, take God's name in vain?, ignore the Sabbath?, dishonor parents? murder?, commit adultery?, steal?, bear false witness?, covet? <br><br>In His Grace,
I don't know what New Covenant Theology is.<br><br>The Old Testament is relevant to Christians. We are to read it and assume that any statements apply to us, unless a specific group or time frame is specified. Ex: The Mosaic Law. Jesus' death fulfilled the Law (brought to completion). The Ten Commandments are just a summary of the entire Law of Moses. <br><br>The New Testament is filled with rules and regulations that God wants Christians to follow. To disregard any part of the Bible, Old Testament or New is sinful. But, do not try to obey the Law of Moses. To do so puts you under a curse. This is stated several places in the New Testament. All of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament except the commandment about the Sabbath. Also, several other parts of the Law are repeated in the New Testament. <br><br>If I want to do research on what God has to say on a certain subject, I use both the Old and New Testaments. Ex: there is a verse in the Old Testament that says our goods deeds are as filthy rags. I will quote this to people when trying to prove we can't work our way to heaven. The Old Testament as well as the New is relevant and applicable.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"][color:black]The New Testament is filled with rules and regulations that God wants Christians to follow.</font color=black> [color:red]To disregard any part of the Bible, Old Testament or New is sinful.</font color=red> But, do not try to obey the Law of Moses. To do so puts you under a curse. This is stated several places in the New Testament.</font><hr></blockquote><p> This is kind-a-contradictory would you not say? How can I:<br><br><ul>1. not disregard the Old Testament (OT)<br>2. if I <span style="background-color:yellow;">try not obey</span> the Law of Moses in the OT?[/LIST] Are you saying that the OT is impractical for Christian Living?<br>Are you saying I should attempt only to obey certain parts of God's Word and not others?<br>What kind of curse does a Christian get for obeying the OT truth that one should not commit adultery?<br>
Saturday (the seventh day of the week) is the Jewish Sabbath. The commandment to keep it holy is part of the Mosaic Law. <br><br>Genesis 2:2-3 says "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. <br><br>Then in Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. "<br><br>The 7th Day Sabbath goes back to creation. The 7th Day was blessed and sanctified in Genesis 2:2-3. So the Biblical 7th Day Sabbath is NOT only for Jews. <br><br>If we abandon the 7th Day Sabbath from Genesis 2, we may as well abandon the marriage commandment from Genesis 2 ("Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.")<br><br>Steve<br><br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>
You should obey all of God's Word. And God's Word says Christians are NOT under the Mosaic Law. God's Word says Christ fulfilled the curse of the Law (brought to completion). If the Law was all that important, why did God wait until the time of Moses to give it? Thousands of years had passed!!<br>Here is a quote from "Rightly Dividing the Word" from Back to the Bible Broadcast, in Lincoln, NE: It is important for us to understand that the ralationship of Christ to the Law was the same as that of the Jewish people at the time of Moses. He came during the Dispensation of the Law, and 33 years of His life were spent in fulfilling the Law. In His life in the flesh, Christ completed the Law by fulfilling its demand for perfection. In his death He completed it by accepting its penalty meant for us. Since Christ fulfilled this Law, it can no longer demand anything from us. <br><br>Biblical evidence that being under the Law is being under a curse: Gal. 13:10; Gal.13:13; Deut. 27:26; Rom. 10:4-5<br><br>Concerning adultry, the N.T. forbids it. Also, the O.T. makes it clear that God created one woman for one man. That is His plan for families.<br><br>If you think Christians are sanctified by the Law, then all Christian males must be circumcised!! Paul condemns that emphatically! <br><br>Another quote from "Rightly Dividing the Word":<br><br>A dispensation is a moral period in the world's history which ends in a special judgement. In each of the seven dipensations, God revealed Himself to His people, or to the world, always in a somewhat different pattern. God's plan of salvation is the same in each dispensation, yet He may deal differently with man in each of these periods of history.
Gen. 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all His work which God created and made.<br><br>The root meaning of the words "Sabbath" and "rest," as referred to in Genesis 2:3, is "to cease." After having spent six day in His creative work, God ceased from His labors. The words "evening" and "morning," however, are missing in the description o this Sabbath day. This would indicate that the first Sabbath was a CONTINUOUS ceasing from labor, until the time God once again began His labors in creating new creatures in Christ Jesus. This was God's rest. No obligation on man's part to keep the Sabbath is even implied in this passage. After this first mention of the Sabbath, there is silence for 2500 years; not a word is given concerning it. <br><br>This is from another pamplet from Back to the Bible Broadcast, "The Sabbath or the Lord's Day --Which?
In reply to:[color:"blue"]A dispensation is a moral period in the world's history which ends in a special judgement. In each of the seven dispensations, God revealed Himself to His people, or to the world, always in a somewhat different pattern. God's plan of salvation is the same in each dispensation, yet He may deal differently with man in each of these periods of history.
I'm actually glad, in one aspect, that you quoted this in your reply. For, it will serve to show why Dispensationalism, at least the form that you apparently hold to, is totally incompatible with Calvinism and Reformed theology. The Decalogue (10 Commandments) are not and never were "Mosaic". Nor were they restricted to the nation of Israel. These moral laws were from creation itself and all men were punished for breaking them. Do you remember Cain? He broke the Sixth Commandment thousands of years before Moses stood upon Mt. Sinai. I could easily give you biblical examples where God's wrath fell upon those who broke all and any of the commandments found upon those two tablets of stone long before they appeared in the form given to Moses. Furthermore, these same "10 Laws" are iterated in the New Testament as well. They are perpetually binding upon ALL MEN, not just Christians; more so for them. But NOT unto justification, but as a guide in sanctification.
"Rightly Dividing the Word" unfortunately has its stress upon dividing and not upon rightly, which is characteristic of Dispensational Premillennialism. Fortunately, there are men such as John MacArthur who do not subscribe to this division of Scripture to the extent which the classic Dispensationalists do. "Progressive" is certainly indicative of MacArthur's eschatology and we can only hope and pray the progression continues. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]
As to Matt 5:17, I'm afraid "fulfill" does NOT mean "bring to completion" in the sense of to bring to naught. For a simple reading of the text would show that this would be a clear contradiction of itself:
Matthew 5:17-20 (ASV) "Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven."
May I suggest to you that taken in context, Jesus held a much higher view of the Old Testament and the keeping of the law than did the Scribes and Pharisees, who at every turn sought to distort it and use it to their own advantage. The salvation which the Lord Christ was to accomplish was nothing different than that which was written about centuries prior to His arrival; i.e., salvation by grace by faith in the Messiah Who would make atonement for His people. Thus this "fulfillment" was two-fold. 1) It was set forth in its true spirituality and depth as a means for the true followers of Christ to express their gratitude in holiness of life after the same manner in which He Himself lived before His Father. This statement of Jesus follows His "Sermon on the Mount" where He was addressing those who were believing on Him already. Thus the law, in all its fulness was theirs as a means to produce fruit. (cf. Matt 5:48; Lev. 20:7; 1Pet 1:15, 16). 2) The curse of the law that was to fall upon those who transgressed it was also to be fulfilled in the Lord Christ in His crucifixion. The curse of the law was abrogated for believers in that Christ Jesus' sacrifice was vicarious and substitutionary; i.e., He suffered the penalty of their sins. (cf. 1Cor 5:21). Thus the law is for Christians as a rule of life (sanctification); not as a means to apprehend life (justification).
There are simply far too many references in the N.T. to the "law", decidedly a direct reference to the Moral Law of God which Christians are not to transgress to mention. And because these "10 Laws" are the expression of holiness of God's very nature, it would be impossible for them to be "fulfilled", in the sense of being set aside and not binding upon Christians.
For a couple of excellent article that sets forth this truth see here:
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]If the Law was all that important, why did God wait until the time of Moses to give it? Thousands of years had passed!!</font><hr></blockquote><p> Well, if the law [color:red]is not all that important</font color=red>, as you state: <ul>1. Why did God give it in the first place? <br>2. Why did Christ fulfill it?<br>3. Was there ANY law before Moses? <br>4. Is any of the Word of God NOT ALL THAT IMPORTANT?[/LIST] <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Biblical evidence that being under the Law is being under a curse: Gal. 13:10; Gal.13:13; Deut. 27:26; Rom. 10:4-5</font><hr></blockquote><p> These verses DO NOT support this statement! [color:red]But, do not try to obey the Law of Moses. To do so puts you under a curse.</font color=red><br><br><ul>1. Can a born again Christian fulfill ANY of the Law of Moses?<br>2. How many different type laws are there and how do they differ (main categories)?[/LIST] <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]If you think Christians are sanctified by the Law...</font><hr></blockquote><p> Where did I say this?<br><br><center>WCF<br>Chapter XIX <br>"Of the Law Of God"</center><br><br>I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]<br><br>II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]<br><br>III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]<br><br>IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]<br><br>V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]<br><br>VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]<br><br>VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]
This view is known as Sabbatarianism; Michael Horton also makes a good case for it, though I think he might opine that to say that Christians are no longer obligated to the 10 Commandments is a little excessive. Rather, he would say that we have evidence that we are still to keep them all except for the Sabbath-keeping as it was done in the OT, since Christ has given us our true Sabbath rest.
I'm no Adventist, as I have huge issues with many of their 27 or 29 (or however many) points. But regarding the Sabbath, yes, I do, if you mean that I believe the 7th Day should still be the Sabbath. I disagree with their remnant theology, i.e. that they are the remnant, and that those worshipping on Sunday are not part of the remnant, etc. I guess my Sabbath view is more like that of the 7th Day Baptists.<br><br>Steve
Joe said:<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Well, if the law is not all that important, as you state:<br>1. Why did God give it is the first place?<br>2. Why did Christ fulfill it?<br>3. Was there ANY LAW BEFORE MOSES?<br>4. Is any of the Word of God NOT ALL THAT IMPORTANT?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>The Law was not important, in that it was not esential for salvation. Abraham was saved without it. The Law is important, though. It is good. It is what we have to do if we work our way to heaven. The Law was given to show man that he can never live up to God's standards. The dietary laws were given to show Israel's "set aside" position. Their unique position in God's plan. WHEREVER DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD SEPERATE THE LAWS - moral, dietary, whatever? If God wants Christians to obey one, He wants Christians to obey ALL. There are about 320, and nowhere are you, I, or anyone given permission to seperate them!<br><br>Yes, there was law before Moses. But, to avoid confusion, let's not call them law. Let's call them rules or regulations or something else.<br><br>Why did Christ fulfill it? The only answer I can give is a personal opinion. My personal opinions are not worth much. I think the reason was to free Israel from the Law. God gave the Law, so who has a right to negate it? No one! So, Christ ended the slavery to the law by bringing them to completion, with His death on the cross.<br><br>All of God's word is important! We should read and study the Mosaic Law, but never, ever try to live by them - not even one of them!<br>Example: The Law says to give 10% of our wages back to Him. If 10% is about what you, as a Christian, can afford give 9% or 11% instead. It's better to stay away from 10%! <br><br>Re: Gal. 13:10; Gal. 13:13; Deut. 27:26; Rom. 10:4-5, Joe said:<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]These verses DO NOT support this statement! But, do not try to obey the Law of Moses. To do so puts you under a curse.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br>If you really feel this way, I'm convinced your mind is slammed shut.<br><br>Joe said:<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]1. Can a born again Christian fulfill ANY of the Law of Moses?</font><hr></blockquote><p> Christ has already fulfilled all of them. The only Law of Moses that a Christian can obey are the ones repeated in other parts of the Bible. <br><br>Joe said:<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] How many different type laws are there and how do they differ (main categories)?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br>God has different rules and regulations for each dispensation. They don't contradict each other. It isn't like God's plan changes, it just progresses.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/pencil.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/scratch1.gif)
<br><br>In His Grace,
