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SovereignGrace
SovereignGrace
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Pilgrim said:
I say absolutely not. The application of that which was objectively secured by Christ's atonement is done in time; the exact moment as foreordained by God in eternity through the means which He also foreordained. One is ONLY justified when their is personal union with Christ. And that union is only actualized by faith; a faith which is wrought by the Holy Spirit in regeneration. Though their (elects) justification was eternally ordained and infallible secured by Christ in his atonement the application of it occurs in time.

But aren't you saying something similar to that of the Brief Statement Lutherans? There are objective and subjective components of justification? And, by saying there is no justification without faith, aren't you saying that something must be added to the atonement to make it efficacious, a tenet of Arminianism?

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speratus said:
But aren't you saying something similar to that of the Brief Statement Lutherans? There are objective and subjective components of justification? And, by saying there is no justification without faith, aren't you saying that something must be added to the atonement to make it efficacious, a tenet of Arminianism?
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nope.gif" alt="" /> What I believe and what the Reformed Faith teaches and most importantly, what the Bible teaches is that Christ Jesus actually and infallibly secured the salvation for ALL whom He died. Is this such a difficult concept and truth to comprehend? You may not agree because it isn't found in the "Formula of Concorde", but can't you at least grasp the significance of it and how it differs drastically from what the Lutherans and Arminians believe? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

I hold that:
  • The Father elected a certain number of sinners to be saved.
  • The Son secured all that was necessary for the elect's salvation through His vicarious and substitutionary atonement.
  • The Holy Spirit regenerates the elect whom the Father predestined to salvation; those for whom Christ died, and brings them infallibly to faith in Christ at their appointed time, whereby they are declared righteous on the basis of Christ's substitutionary atonement, and then dwells within them working sanctification and finally effecting their glorification.

The atonement which Christ underwent consists of that which He really accomplished and then that which was accomplished, applied. The Lord Christ infallible secured EVERYTHING necessary to bring those for whom He died to salvation . . . TOTAL salvation, from beginning to end. Since the Lord Christ's death was to accomplish "penal satisfaction", all that was an offense to God was effectively resolved. Justice was executed and therefore God was satisfied. No one for whom Christ died can or will ever be brought to the court of heaven to stand trial, be found guilty and sentenced to eternal damnation. Why? because Christ's death was a substitutionary atonement for sin. He suffered "in the place of" those who the Father gave Him. And ALL the benefits which Christ merited in that atonement are then applied to His sheep temporally, according to God's eternal council.

If Christ died for all and thus ALL are reconciled to God and ALL are justified in His death, then of necessity ALL will be infallibly saved. The heavenly court was brought to order, Christ Jesus was charged with sinning against God. He was tried and found guilty and sentenced to eternal hell. Thus in freely offering Himself as a SUBSTITUTE for the elect and suffered "in their place", those for whom He died CANNOT be found guilty of ANY sin, whether by commission or omission. For they ALL are eventually and infallible clothed with HIS perfect righteousness and declared righteous when the benefits of His substitutionary death are applied.

Okay, I've explained this several different ways. Hopefully now you will comprehend not only what it is Calvinists believe, but the grandeur of Trinitarian salvation whereby the 3 Persons of the Trinity, being of one accord, infallibly save sinners by grace, aka: "Sola Gratia". No one for whom Christ died will be lost. (Matt 1:21)

In His Grace,


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Speratus,

Pilgrim's excellent post brought to mind a book that you might want to read (if you sincerely want to understand the reformed/biblical view of the atonement.) It is Redemption: Accomplished and Applied by John Murray. I probably recommend that book more than any other, for this concept is absolutely foundational.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
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