The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Hebrews 8 has this covenant arrived?

Ive also found this to be true (fulness) in the Born Again scriptures. The actual born again event does not take place till Jesus returns. But my greatest question is are we to walk in these things spoken of in the new testament in order for us to partake in there fulness? Is it up to us? Must we walk as though Gods laws are written in heart? As if we were born again? As if we were in the kingdom? And if not do we partake in there fulness?

Born again = the Second Coming? I do nto understand where you conclude this. Please elaborate. You are covering a ton of territory here. The 2 covenants, born again, the Kingdom of God are huge territories with libraries written on each of them.

The Covenant of Grace is eternal JE. That is the Eternal Covenant spoken of in Hebrews. 13:20, "May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep"

I meant to say the Covenant of Grace is part of the eternal covenant. SO its inception is prior to the birth of Christ.

Hi ya Joe
Well, if ya simply read whats written and believe what it says you wont need librarys of mans literature to explain the scriptures. The scriptures will interpret the scriptures.

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus said to enter the kingdom you must be born again. Flesh IS flesh and spirit IS spirit. Before entering the kingdom, we will be changed, into spirit. Born Again.

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, even the salvation of your souls.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.

Seems that you will not be “born again” till Jesus returns at which time we will all be changed (born again). An inheritance INCORRUPTIBLE. Of course the dead in Christ will rise first (1 Cor.15) and be raised in INCORRUPTION

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY.

JOHN3
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me![14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, after the wrath of God spoken of in revelations has taken place, then the change will come. We will be “born again” as the last trumpet of God is blown.

Dan: Your last statement is true. The rest is terribly confused. First of all, what I meant is that the topics you are covering have had volumes written about them, and you asre the only one out of millions who have interpreted them this way. I am afraid with yout technique of Reading Scripture, you will conclude Christ is a vine, and actual door made of wood, And an actual material of flour and water.

You are confusing the power of regeneration with our heavanly inheritance. I would not even know where to begin except to say you are reading these scriptures with soethign that was never intended. Remember they are infallible for what they intend to teach. Picture dropping a rock in the center of the pacific Ocean. That point of impact is what is intended, your understanding is at the coast of California. Capeech?

I have seen you state over and over "If you simply read what it says, you will.." Well I have read, And in my sliver of understanding, your interpretation has never made the list. I suggest you start by being taught the basics from a person who knows basic theology proper.

AS far as John 3 is concerned, Christ is speakign of the Spirits work in regeneration and the necessity of it.

Job 14 is all about Job contemplating his death. His friends were fo no help, so now he goes to God and himself. He begins to prepare for his death and resurrection. This has nothing to do with being born again.


Joe

Yes, the CG is a covenant made from "eternity," but its fullness will not be realized until the last day. Glorification is its fullness, until then we just see it partially, but not completely. Though a covenant may be "eternal" it does not mean its fullness is present now (i.e. though you have a car, there may still be a bank note on it, its yours, but not in full, you have full use of it, but some things still must happen for it to be yours in its fullness--of course no illustration is full-proof...). Some things still have to happen for the fullness to reveal itself....

Remember the CG not only has an individual dimension to it, but a corporate as well. Until every person in the CG is regenerated the CG only continues, but its consummation is not yet complete......

You are getting glorification and regeneration confused. Glorification will happen when Christ returns, regeneration happens during the ministry of the Holy Spirit "now" in this age. If one is not "saved" now he will not be saved in the "last day."

Professed christians are to walk in the things of the Kingdom "now" as they are now under a new ruler (God). Christ is both LORD and Saviour. The King makes it possible for one to walk HIs way in His Kingdom (empowerment of the Word, Holy Spirit, etc. ) as they are new creations in a new kingdom. However, the "fullness" (look at Jer 31) will not be here until the last day.

Hay Joe K
you wrote
I suggest you start by being taught the basics from a person who knows basic theology proper.

Well Joe, that doesnt make much sense to me. The Word says that the many shall come in my name and be decieved. How can i discern who the decieved are?

1 John 2 [18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. [20] But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. [21] I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

2 Cor. 11 [13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

There are many more of this type of warnings in the new testament.

I figure the best thing to do is to continue to let the scriptures interpret the scriptures. Theres an old testament scripture that says if you follow a decieved prophet, you will recieve that prophets reward. Im not going to do that. I will live or die by the written Word.

This by no means infers that we are to be our own theological Island. Christ sent His Church to teach. Test what anyone says against the Word. But Dave, with your understanding of Scriptural study, you may conclude the earth is flat!!!!!!!!!!!! And the sun revolves around the earth.

Hi Joe K
you wrote
But Dave, with your understanding of Scriptural study, you may conclude the earth is flat!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im not sure why you called me dave? The conclusion that the earth was flat came from the doctrines of man. In fact when that doctrine was borne...Well i wont get into that now.

Anyways the WORD always gets it right!

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

ALL the circles i know are round Joe K. Aint the WORD of God great!

I am assuming that this was a joke, right? But, out the extreme outside possibility that it wasn't then to be consistent in interpreting this verse so as not to commit grammatical suicide, then God literally sits on the circumference of the earth, we are grasshoppers and not human beings, the heavens are hung on a curtain rod and the Lord moves then around so that they resemble a tent.

Why would it be a joke? I was simply pointing out that the bible says the world was round. Thats all. And as far as im concerned God can sit anywhere He wants.Although i think the passage was not speaking literally.

The term "circle" (NIV, but "vault" in many other versions) in Isa 40:22 has nothing to do with the world being round, but is simply a reference to the horizon that encircles human experience on the Earth (Pratt).

Tell us how your literal translation will now deal with:

Did you know that Biblical Verses suggest the earth has Edges (Job 38:13), Ends (Job 37:3; 28:24), Four Corners, Pillars (Job 9:6), and Foundations? What does a circle with 4 corners look like? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

Yikes you guys! Those sayings are still being used today and we are pretty sure the earth is round. I think one of them was used on a weekly sports show 20 years ago or so. From the 4 corners of the globe. You sure do have to read a lot(add to the Word)into those verses to come up with a flat world. But...if thats what ya believe.