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#23051
Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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I ran across several people on the net who voiced concerns over the 3rd verse of Wesley's "And Can it Be" being too Arminian. I have trouble seeing that, and I'd like your opinion: He left His Father's throne above, So free, so infinite His grace. Emptied Himself of all but love And bled for Adam's helpless race. Why is saying "And bled for Adam's helpless race" a denial of particular redemption? It can be if that's what your congregation is taught. But it doesn't have to be. I mean, if I say "I bought donuts", it doesn't mean I bought every single donut in the whole world. I know that the Trinity Hymnal (Baptist Edition) changed the line to "bled for al His chosen race", which I like, but I don't see the problem with the old line.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
I have just a few problems: Emptied Himself of all but love This is not a true statement as He was/is still God and if he emptied himself of ALL but love, then we need to ask if God truly died for us?, etc. "Emptied Himself" after the previous phrase (He left His Father's throne above) is a dangerous statement, et. AL. Hendriksen was quite correct when he asked concerning Phil 2:7: “Of what did Christ empty himself? Surely not of his existence ‘in the form of God.'" And bled for Adam's helpless race Only in a common grace way can we say it was for ALL Adam's helpless race. The "I bought donuts" doesn't say for whom the donuts were bought, while "Adam's helpless race" is pretty specific ("all" being implied and most likely what Wesley meant)
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 116
Member
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The Trinity Hymnal (Presbyterian edition) has it different.
He left His Father's throne above, So free, so infinite His grace. Humbled himself (so great his love!) And bled for all his chosen race.
Another thing I noticed in the Trinity Hymnal is in O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing, the fourth stanza begins: He breaks the power of reigning sin in. However, I visited my brother’s church (Baptist) and their hymnal said: He breaks the power of canceled sin.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969 |
From the Cyber Hymnal (Which I've found tends to print the earliest version of the Hymn.) O for a thousand tongues to sing My great Redeemer’s praise, The glories of my God and King, The triumphs of His grace!
My gracious Master and my God, Assist me to proclaim, To spread through all the earth abroad The honors of Thy name.
Jesus! the name that charms our fears, That bids our sorrows cease; ’Tis music in the sinner’s ears, ’Tis life, and health, and peace.
He breaks the power of canceled sin, He sets the prisoner free; His blood can make the foulest clean, His blood availed for me.
He speaks, and, listening to His voice, New life the dead receive, The mournful, broken hearts rejoice, The humble poor believe.
Hear Him, ye deaf; His praise, ye dumb, Your loosened tongues employ; Ye blind, behold your Savior come, And leap, ye lame, for joy.
In Christ your Head, you then shall know, Shall feel your sins forgiven; Anticipate your heaven below, And own that love is heaven.
Glory to God, and praise and love Be ever, ever given, By saints below and saints above, The church in earth and heaven.
On this glad day the glorious Sun Of Righteousness arose; On my benighted soul He shone And filled it with repose.
Sudden expired the legal strife, ’Twas then I ceased to grieve; My second, real, living life I then began to live.
Then with my heart I first believed, Believed with faith divine, Power with the Holy Ghost received To call the Savior mine.
I felt my Lord’s atoning blood Close to my soul applied; Me, me He loved, the Son of God, For me, for me He died!
I found and owned His promise true, Ascertained of my part, My pardon passed in heaven I knew When written on my heart.
Look unto Him, ye nations, own Your God, ye fallen race; Look, and be saved through faith alone, Be justified by grace.
See all your sins on Jesus laid: The Lamb of God was slain, His soul was once an offering made For every soul of man.
Awake from guilty nature’s sleep, And Christ shall give you light, Cast all your sins into the deep, And wash the Æthiop white.
Harlots and publicans and thieves In holy triumph join! Saved is the sinner that believes From crimes as great as mine.
Murderers and all ye hellish crew In holy triumph join! Believe the Savior died for you; For me the Savior died.
With me, your chief, ye then shall know, Shall feel your sins forgiven; Anticipate your heaven below, And own that love is heaven. Can't say I've ever seen the Harlots, Publicans, and Thieves (Oh My!) verse ever or sang it.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
David W. said: The Trinity Hymnal (Presbyterian edition) has it different.
He left His Father's throne above, So free, so infinite His grace. Humbled himself (so great his love!) And bled for all his chosen race.
Another thing I noticed in the Trinity Hymnal is in O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing, the fourth stanza begins: He breaks the power of reigning sin in. However, I visited my brother’s church (Baptist) and their hymnal said: He breaks the power of canceled sin. Now that is singing! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cheers2.gif" alt="" />
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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