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Where do you and/or your church stand? #40756
Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:03 PM
Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,821
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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This is an informal and totally anonymous survey which I thought would be interesting to do. I hope you will all participate. Additional comments via a reply are always welcome.

Does your church hold to Sunday Sabbath observance?
single choice
Yes
79%, 19 Votes
No
21%, 5 Votes
Total Votes: 24
Voting on this poll ends: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:00 AM
If your answer to #1 was No, does your church require/encourage abstinence of alcohol, dancing, TV, card playing etc.?
single choice
Yes
33%, 2 Votes
No
67%, 4 Votes
Total Votes: 6
Voting on this poll ends: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:00 AM
If your answer to #1 was Yes, does your church require/encourage abstinence of alcohol, dancing, TV, card playing etc.?
single choice
Yes
26%, 5 Votes
No
74%, 14 Votes
Total Votes: 19
Voting on this poll ends: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:00 AM

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Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40757
Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:11 PM
Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:11 PM
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Kentucky
MarieP Offline
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So much for us Sabbatarians being legalists! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40758
Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:22 AM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:22 AM
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Eastern US
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I accidentally chose "yes, no, no" instead of "yes, no answer, no". I didn't see a way to change my answer.

John

Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40759
Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:08 PM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:08 PM
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Posts: 1,800
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Offline

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I bet there would be some arguable differences on the definition of "Sunday Sabbath observance?"

Last edited by John_C; Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:08 PM.

John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: John_C] #40760
Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:51 PM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:51 PM
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NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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Quote
John_C said:
I bet there would be some arguable differences on the definition of "Sunday Sabbath observance?"

And I would bet you are correct. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I intentionally used the phraseology that I did in the hopes of leaving some "wiggle room". There have been those historically, most in the Baptist camp, for example, John Bunyan and C.H. Spurgeon among others, who reject the binding of the day and as a strict definition of the "Sabbath", i.e., the Fourth Commandment yet they have held that Sunday, aka: "The Lord's Day" is to be sanctified and ironically used such texts as Isaiah 58:13, 14 as applicable to how Sunday should be viewed. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" /> For that I am thankful.

All others basically view Sunday, (the Christian Sabbath or The Lord's Day) as one which you go to church in the morning (sometimes evening as well) and do whatever you so desire thereafter; e.g., go to the beach, play volleyball, competitive sports, etc., etc., rather than restricting your thoughts and deeds to that which is specific to the worship of God.

I thought this would be an interesting survey and so far none have voted "No" as to the first question, unfortunately. Perhaps over the next week there will be some. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40761
Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:07 PM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:07 PM
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Posts: 1,856
Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
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Wes  Offline
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Northwest Indiana, USA
This is going to show how old I am. I grew up in a church that practiced Sunday Sabbath. I knew people who wouldn't even peel their potatoes for Sunday dinner on Sunday. They'd do in on Saturday night instead. Many would not answer the phone on Sunday because it needed the operator to work and that broke the fourth commandment. We didn't ride our bikes on Sunday nor play catch with a ball. I lived in a town with a blue law ordinance. All the stores were closed. Literally the streets were rolled back on Sunday and we practiced abstinence from all forms of labor with the exception of deeds of mercy.

Now that must sound ridiculous and quite strange to some of you younger folks but that's what you do when you take the fourth commandment literally. We didn't view this as a burden but more as a privilege to be able to cease from work and rest on the Lord's day. This kind of Sunday observance is still practiced by the Amish people and the Menonites in our area. Neither my church or community practice these legal requirements in quite the same way any longer.

Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40762
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:04 PM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:04 PM
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William Offline
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Our church holds to Sabbath (the Lord's day) observance and so do we. Most do not travel other than to church and do only works of necessity on His day (though not perfectly). Abstinence from TV is a given, nobody has them and no mention of them is ever made during the preached word as there is something more important to speak about. I find these things great blessings and love just having a good-n-hot bowl of soup prepared the day before with some nice bread and a slice or two of dutch cheese, yum yum. Also dirty dishes are keep at a minimum so there's not much time spent in the kitchen as opposed to thinking, talking or reading about the things of the Lord. Getting gas, shopping, excessive phone conversations are all things that can be done the other 6 days of the week. Its the Lord's day.

William

Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: William] #40763
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:13 PM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
Kentucky
MarieP Offline
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William,

I think the second question had to do with the Christian life in general, not the Sabbath.


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: MarieP] #40764
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 PM
Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 PM
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Mary, my post is about the life God has given me and the life of my church before His all seeing eye every day of the week but especially His day. What I wrote is not much different than Wes's post other than our observance of the BEST day of the week.

Have a good Lord's day,
William

Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: William] #40765
Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:18 PM
Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:18 PM
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Posts: 379
NJ
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I attend the NRC which is been highly criticized as legalistic and hyper-calvinistic, being on the inside I can safely say it's neither of those things.

Abstaining from vein and worldly endeavors is not a work unto salvation but is a matter of honor and commitment to the Lord of all the Heaven & Earth. There are many things in this GOd-given earth we can enjoy without going the way of the world. As for the Lord's Day, it is a Holy Day void of destractions.


The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: AC.] #40766
Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:12 PM
Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:12 PM
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And where might that church be located, Anthony?

You could PM me if you would like.

Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: AC.] #40767
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:00 PM
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,821
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline OP

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Posts: 13,821
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Quote
AC. said:
Abstaining from vein and worldly endeavors is not a work unto salvation but is a matter of honor and commitment to the Lord of all the Heaven & Earth. There are many things in this God-given earth we can enjoy without going the way of the world. As for the Lord's Day, it is a Holy Day void of distractions.

I can heartily agree with your general view of the Sabbath which most all the Reformed churches have upheld as "The Lord's Day" from which one is to abstain from their regular work and recreation. (cf. Is 58:13, 14) Additionally, most of our forefathers were very wise in not legislating a list of "do's & don'ts" for Sabbath observance but rather gave a two-fold principle of what could be done in addition to the attending to the corporate and family worship of God, e.g,. "works of mercy and necessity".


The Westminster Larger Catechism, Question 117


Q 117: How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified?
A 117: The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day,[1] not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful;[2] and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to betaken up in works of necessity and mercy)[3] in the public and private exercises of God's worship:[4] and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.[5]

1. Exod. 20:8, 10
2. Exod. 16:25-28; Neh. 13:15-22; Jer. 17:21-22
3. Matt. 12:1-13
4. Isa. 58:18; 66:23; Luke 4:16; Acts 20:7; I Cor. 16:1-2; Psa. ch. 92; Lev. 23:3
5. Exod. 16:22, 25-26, 29; 20:8; Luke 23:54, 56; Neh. 13:19


As with any of God's laws, but especially it seems in regard to the Sabbath, men are always want to either add to or detract from what God requires thinking themselves wiser than God. For example, Wes mentioned that many years ago some thought it "holy" to abstain from preparing meals, even peeling potatoes, or washing dishes on the Lord's Day. But one would be hard-pressed to find anything of the sort encouraged in Scripture. Did the Lord Christ not take long walks on the Sabbath, to the anger of the Pharisees, and pluck grain (corn?) shell it and eat it on the Sabbath? (cf. Matt 12:1, 2, 5, 8; Lk 13:14-16)

The Sabbath was "made for man". (Mk 2:27, 28) It is a day of praiseworthy freedom in which men may give themselves over to the worship of their Creator and Redeemer God. Adding TO what the Lord requires is to remove the freedom graciously given. Detracting FROM what the Lord requires is to impinge upon that freedom graciously given. Pharisaical rule-making and Antinomianism are far too easy a thing for us all to fall into.

THOUGHTS?

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40768
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:34 PM
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:34 PM
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Pilgrim,

I agree and the WC does a great job of explaining...

but sometimes we require some practical illustations, no?

I agree a list of do's and dont's is taking things a bit too far....

but we have some posters here who share the Lord's Day with the NFL - can we serve the Lord & mammon. Is it too harsh to say that one who would spend a considerable amount of time watching football on Sunday would not be saved.

I'm not saying one that doesn't watch football is saved. WHen I first converted from RCC to Reformed my mind was on the game even though my body was in the pew. I used to have my dad tape the game to watch on Monday (how hypocritical was that!)

Not that it was a litmus test but last year my ol' favorite team made it to and won the SuperBowl - did I watch it? did I even care?

My point is there are millions of Catholics and so-called Christians who don't even know it's wrong to share the Lord's Day with the World and that they are on the broad way to destruction. Not becasue they watched the football game but because their heart had not been turned to God.

Shouldn't the Church warn of these things? By posting the WCF I know you agree!

But are you simply hung up on lists? Would you rather the statements be more generalized and vague. Our hearts are evil, no? It doesn't take much to distract us throughout the week not just Sunday.

I think it's ok to say how we shouldn't spend the day and how we should - but it is GOd's work to do the rest and truely incline our hearts unto Him! But even if it is not unto salvation God's day must not be dishonored regardless and if so a chatisement is in order (not becasue we watched football but because we tarnished the Day he set aside for us to rest in Him). Even if our heart is not true our acts still should be, no?

I don't mean to sound too much like a Puritan. Or maybe I do.

Last edited by AC.; Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:42 PM.

The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: Pilgrim] #40769
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:43 PM
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:43 PM
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Quote
for example, Wes mentioned that many years ago some thought it "holy" to abstain from preparing meals, even peeling potatoes, or washing dishes on the Lord's Day.


I don't think that people thought it was "holy" to abstain from preparing meals I think they just wanted to give the Lord their best in giving Him the most time they can on His day.

Quote
But one would be hard-pressed to find anything of the sort encouraged in Scripture.


These scriptures encourage me to prepare by example and they were not to hard to find.

Quote
[color:"0000FF"]Exodus 16:19 And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.

20 Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.

21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.

22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.

25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.

26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.[/color]

Last edited by William; Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:46 PM.
Re: Where do you and/or your church stand? [Re: AC.] #40770
Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:44 PM
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This brings up another issue tied to legalism - even though our best works are as filthy rags should we concern ourelves with our acts and whether they are God dishonoring even though they do not merit a thing on their own?


The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

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