The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Does God have a vision for the world?

For the past four weeks our congregation had a "focus time on relationships". Our pastor worked out some daily reading and once a week small groups get together to discuss the week's topic.

At one point the pastor says the following: "God has a vision that the world be saved". He uses John 3:16 and says that "this says it all about God's vision for the world".

I feel itchy about such statements. If one has a vision about something you want to achieve, it basically means you strive towards that goal and hope that you achieve it. Having a vision does not mean that your vision necessarily will realize. Having a vision is like saying to yourself: "This is what I would like to achieve". The end result is not necessarily guarenteed.

Should one not rather refer to God's eternal decrees or His eternal counsel? God's counsel is His eternal plan which He surely will execute.
Ephesians 1:4,5: and
Ephesians 1:11:
I simply don't find in Scripture the idea that God has a vision for the world with vision having the normal meaning in this context. I also checked some books on Systematic Theology (Louis Berkhof and H. Bavinck) and simply don't find anything like that.

My suspicion is that the pastor want to get to the point that if God has a vision for the world then we should have the same vision. In this regard he says that Israel did not made God's vision for the world their own.

Should I feel itchy about such statements?

Johan

Personally, I would feel much more than "itchy" and that way back when the topic was announced, re: "relationships".

I think your assessment of the word "vision", especially due to the context which it is being used, e.g. "God's vision for the world according to John 3:16", is accurate.

Now personally, from all that has gone on and is going on in your local congregation, I would be obligated to start proceedings against your pastor in accord with the biblical model and your denomination's legal order:

1. Confront the pastor directly, asking for clarification and then repentance.
2. Bring the matter before the Consistory as a formal complaint against the pastor.
3. Bring the matter before the Classis as a formal complaint against the Consistory and pastor.

I wouldn't bother taking it further upon rejection of Classis to Synod. But given how some of these things take years to be dealt with (aka: avoidance), after a reasonable amount of time, oh... let's say 4 months, I would leave and find another congregation. The direction your church is going is downward. The teaching is heretical and classically subtle so as to be embraced by most who are biblically illiterate (sheep who follow after the under shepherd and not after the Good Shepherd and HIS Word). In short, Johan, I couldn't sit under this man's preaching/teaching at this juncture nor especially expose my family to such teachings. I would be gone!

In His grace,

Johan,

You should most definitely feel "itchy" about these statements from your pastor. If God's purpose is to save the whole world, what can thwart His purpose? Nothing! Evidently, since God does not save everyone, it is not God's purpose to save the whole world, and Scripture teaches enough in this respect to make it clear.