The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Who was that?

I thought I would throw this out for discussion. When I studied this text in depth a few years ago, I was surprised as my eyes were opened to a marvelous truth which I had not realized before, even though it was, of course, staring at me for so long.

QUESTION: Whose voice is the inspired writer referring to here?

Christ, through the prophet Haggai. It was Christ's voice that created the heavens and the earth (John 1:1-3), the One who explained God to Man (verse 18). I think the reference is applicable to the final exodus, when the creation is to be shaken, and all the kingdoms of the world (Haggai 2:22) overthrown and Christ and His chosen ones are all that remain.

-Robin

Well...... yes and no.

Re: the "no" part, here's the full context of that passage which should give you the answer to the PLACE that the voice was heard. Once you realize the PLACE then I'm sure the proverbial lights will go on and the wonder of it all.

Near context:

Hebrews 12:18-24 (ASV) "For ye are not come unto [a mount] that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard entreated that no word more should be spoken unto them; for they could not endure that which was enjoined, If even a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned; and so fearful was the appearance, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake: but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than [that of] Abel."

vv. 25, 26: "See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned [them] on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape] who turn away from him that [warneth] from heaven: whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven."

Good work on the "yes" part! Let's see who else 'gets it'.

Jesus
Mount Sinai

Tom

Nice try!

You got the PLACE but not the PERSON.

Here's a hint to figure out why the person wasn't Jesus who spoke on Mt. Sinai:

Luke 1:31 (KJV) "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."

John 1:14 (ASV) "And the Word became flesh {Jesus of Nazareth}, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth."

That should help... Now take it from there.

Well, let me give it a try. I would say it is the voice of God the Father and it refers to the transfiguration on the mountain.

Johan

The Word

Mount Sinai

And what or who is "The Word"?

I am with Johan, God the Father, Mount Sinai

That's a very common understanding of the text.

Let's see what other views some might have.

Pilgrim,

From what you say it seems as if there is just one correct understanding of the text. Right??

Johan

A guarded "yes".

What I mean is that one could posit that it was "God's" voice, which would be technically correct. But there are three persons within the Godhead. Unless one wants to say that all three of the person's spoke simultaneously; a bit of a problem IMHO, then one would have to chose among them, correct?

If one believes the voice belonged to someone other than God, then that's a totally different matter.

So, the original question was, put another way, "Whose voice did Moses hear on Mt. Sinai?" (I'm conceding and agreeing that the place referred to in the overall context is Mt. Sinai, cf. vv. 18-21, 25)

Pilgrim,

How many chances does one get???

Thinking more about it, maybe I am starting to understand your question. So, I'll try again. I would say it was the voice of the Son. The reason for saying so is that He is the only mediator between the Father and man. At Mt. Sinai God made a covenant with the people of Israel and this covenant could only be made by a Mediator. And that Mediator is Christ, the Son of God. And He always was the Mediator, in the Old as well as the New Testament.

Johan

Very well done!!

Yes, in my personal study of this passage I have come to the conclusion that the voice heard on Sinai was that of the pre-incarnate Christ; the Son of God. And the voice which will be heard is that of the incarnate Christ; Jesus Christ. He is indeed the Mediator and only Mediator between God and man. And, according to James 4:12, there is only one "lawgiver" and "judge" (Rom 2:16; 2Tim 4:1; Heb 10:28-30).

There are many implications for understanding that it was the pre-incarnate Christ, the Son, Who spoke on Sinai but one major one, for me at least, in that it provides a strong argument against NCT and all those who claim that the Ten Commandments are not applicable to NT Christians and that we are to abide only by the "Law of Christ". However, if the Ten Commandments were delivered by Christ (pre-incarnate) then there is no law which is "new" or supercedes it. In other words, there is only one Lawgiver and thus His laws are one and the same in all ages with the noted exception of those ceremonial and civil laws which were fulfilled at His coming and by which all men shall be judged.


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Pilgrim

When I stated "The Word" (John 1:1), I was talking about God the Son (i.e. the pre-incarnate Christ).

As someone who believes that the Ten Commandments are still applicable today; I find your comments concerning NCT very interesting.
Can you expand a little more on that particular aspect?

Do you know of any articles that stress this aspect?

Tom