The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Article to help a friend

Looking for a good article
Hoping you can help me.
A friend of mine, who is concerned about another friend who attends his Church, is hoping I can help him in a matter that he believes is very important.
His friend said he doesn’t believe that the Bible is actually God’s Word as it claims. His main reason for this is because he doesn’t believe that something that points to itself as true can stand up logically without an outside source to prove it.
He went on to say that he believe the Bible is “a testimony”, but not God’s Word. He justified this by saying that as a Christian we have the Holy Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. He says that some of the Bible doesn’t sit well with him and therefore he rejects.
Both my friend and I think these claims are outrageous, but my friend doesn’t feel qualified at present to deal with these claims.
I have suggested to my friend that perhaps we could go through a good article together on the subject, it might prepare him better for this talk. I also believe that because my friend’s friend attends his Church and isn’t shy about sharing these heretical beliefs that it might be time to bring his pastor in on the matter.
He believes this is good advice, but would like to try to talk to his friend first before he does so.
Do you know of a good article that would be helpful? I am thinking of something that is quite easy to understand.
Any other applicable information would be appreciated.
Thank you
Tom

1. If the Bible isn't divinely inspired and thus infallible and inerrant, then how does this friend know that there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit?

2. If the Holy Spirit tells him something is true or not, a) how does he know it is actually the Holy Spirit and not some demon he hears?, or a symptom from a psychological disorder? b) how does he know that the Holy Spirit is telling the truth? If the Bible is fallible, and it is the only source to discover knowledge about the Holy Spirit, then.....

3. There are a number of relevant articles to be found here: Sola Scriptura.

Pilgrim

Those are great questions.

I found out a little bit more about this person that might explain where he is coming from.

I am not sure where he got this from, but he seems to believe that the Roman Catholic Church has changed Scripture over the years, to suit themselves.

He also brought up a Scripture verse supposedly in Hebrews that quotes Jeremiah.
Something about once a person becomes a Christian, they have the Holy Spirit and no longer need the Bible to know truth.

I searched Hebrews for something like this, but I haven't been able to find anything similar.

If I remember correctly, what he believes sounds similar to what the Gnostics believed.

Any thoughts?

Tom,

1. The fact that this 'friend' rejects the divine inspiration of the Bible, reveals much, eh?
2. There are a number of salient articles to choose from HERE.
3. One in particular that I would recommend is: Biblical Innerrancy, by John Gerstner.

One of the ways I am hoping to help my friend is to exegete the Hebrews passage the person was referring to.
Unfortunately the person can't remember where in Hebrews this passage is.
The only thing I have to go by is and I quote:
Any ideas as to where this passage can be found?

Tom

Would Hebrews 8:6-13 be the passage you are looking for?

Hebrews 8:6-13 (ASV) "But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises. 7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them forth out of the land of Egypt; For they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his fellow-citizen, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant] he hath made the first old. But that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is nigh unto vanishing away."

Thanks Pilgrim

Shortly after I wrote that last night I found that passage; but I appreciate your input.
I am presently looking at this passage in light of how my friend's friend used it; i.e. to show that all Christians know the truth without Scripture, in fact this knowledge even supersedes Scripture itself. As I indicated before he believes that the Bible isn't God's actual Word without error, but just one testimony about the true God and His covenant with His people. It doesn't matter to him that the Bible actually claims to be God's Word since much of it (according to him) has been corrupted by the Roman Catholic Church.
Am I correct that this sounds a little like Gnosticism?

One tool I am using to do this is my new Bible Commentary series by Hendriksen and Kistemaker.
However, I am open to any wisdom you or other participants on the Highway might suggest.
Tom

1. His presupposition that the Bible is not the inspired, infallible and inerrant Word of God is self-defeating. There is no way to verify the truthfulness of anything found in the Bible if it is just some book allegedly written by various authors over a period of 2000 years. Thus, for him to pick and choose anything out of the Bible and believe it as true is hypocritical and to be honest, rather silly. And, how would he know anything was corrupted by the RCC without having something to compare the Bible to which hasn't been corrupted?

2. His view might be classified as a sort of Gnosticism and even partially Mysticism, for he has transcended the "normal" method of attaining knowledge, through the teaching of others and reading Scripture to having a direct communication of God and constant divine revelation.

3. John Owen deals with this subject in his article Spiritual Illumination Proved From Scripture. It might appear at first that Owen is either going to provide fodder for your friend's position or that it doesn't deal with it at all, but I assure you that Owen deals with your friend's claims directly and as one might expect, his argument is thorough, succinct, and incontrovertible. I'm assuming, of course, that you are either unaware of this article or if you are, you haven't read it. IF, however, you have read through it I would be interested to know your thoughts concerning how Owen treated the subject and what, if anything, you found salient to dealing with this non-Christian man.