The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Historical Evidence

In the Bible we see many great miracles of God. These miracles such as God's delivering the Israelites out of the Egyptians hands, Sampson killing 1000 Philistines with the jaw bone of an ass, etc...<br><br>I am curious if anyone knows of any historical record other than the Bible, of events such as these. Perhaps even by Egyptians or Philistine sources themselves.<br><br>Tom

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I am curious if anyone knows of any historical record other than the Bible, of events such as these.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Tom,<br><br>Is there any need of corroborating historical records? Yes, I am quite aware that unbelievers often pose this question to those who are faithful to the Word of God and profess it to be the inspired written Word of the one true God which is inerrant and infallible. For unbelievers, what is written in the Scriptures is something which can be discarded at will. Yet, they will accept other written documents prima facie which claim incredibly ridiculous things, e.g., Evolution. What is needed most isn't corroborating "evidence", but rather a new heart. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I am curious if anyone knows of any historical record other than the Bible, of events such as these. Perhaps even by Egyptians or Philistine sources themselves.</font><hr></blockquote><p> First, may I caution such a question by saying WHY do we need such evidence? We don't, for in FAITH we take the Scriptures as true without any need of actual external evidence. I caution us therefore that we should NOT place our faith in external evidence, but in Scripture alone. <br><br>Second, God in His infinite mercy and grace anticipated the questions of some (and I am not saying this is you Tom) and has seen fit through the centuries to give us much information that confirms what is already true. Maybe some of this information will assist you in your study. I would not supplement the Gospel message with this though. Again, I do not put credence in this, but it may make interesting reading:<br><br>Christian Answers Network<br><br>Biblical Archaeology<br><br>History and the Bible Home Page<br><br>There are several other sources as well, just look up "Biblical Archeology"<br>

You beat me to it...man.....[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]

Amen.<br><br>There is no such thing as an athiest. <br><br>As it says in Romans 1:18-32:<br><br>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, <br>19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. <br>20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. <br>21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. <br>22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, <br>23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. <br>24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. <br>25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. <br>26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, <br>27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. <br>28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, <br>29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, <br>30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, <br>31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; <br>32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Tom: <br><br>The scriptures clearly teach that the vast majority of those that witnessed the Lords miracles, as well as the miracles of the Apostles and prophets, did not believe in Him. <br><br>So it should be clear that something else other than external miracles, that is visible miracles, is necessary to believing faith. The external was a testament to both believing and non believing man that He is who He says He is, but only those IN whom He works will believe. <br><br>It is therefore, another miracle of grace which is required to produce a believer, and that miracle is the opening the spiritual eyes of the blind to see the reality of the utter depravity and inability of man and the dying love and blood of the Son of God.<br><br>Therefore, what need, as Joe and Pilgrim have asked, of verification of historical miracles?<br><br>Gerry <br><br><br><br>Gerry

Joe<br><br>This information is not for me, I requested it because someone recently told me there is no evidence outside of the Bible that these miracles ever occurred. When I hear something like that, if possible I like to prove that it is not true. I may be wrong, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that.<br><br>Of course I realize that our faith is not based on such sources, faith is a gift from God and even if God were to do a miracle in front of a non-believer it wouldn't bring them to faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.<br><br>Tom<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]This information is not for me, I requested it because someone recently told me there is no evidence outside of the Bible that these miracles ever occurred. When I hear something like that, if possible I like to prove that it is not true. I may be wrong, [color:red]but I don't think there is anything wrong with that.</font color=red></font><hr></blockquote><p> Well if you are giving it to a unbeliever BEWARE, you are in sin--his faith need not be in extra-biblical evidence, as many have already commented! If you are providing this to him instead of him coming to the end of his pride and seeing Christ by grace alone........[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img] it is not good news. By supplying these type of resources to non-believers you are circumventing the Gospel with man-made "truth" (some is accurate) or "speculation" and not directing them to the TRUTH! What indisputable PROOF-from secular history, archeology, et.al are you going to offer him when he asks how the world began!!! This is the natural progression of such inquiry! <br><br>As I said before, "I would not supplement the Gospel message with this." Redirect his inquiry and ask him what indisputable proof he has that the Bible is wrong? He has none..............Turn the Question and NOT the Gospel!!! My hope is that this "person" was directed to you so you may show him the way of faith and not the way of external evidence. Unbelievers occasionally become infatuated with such material and for some it leads them to a believer who guides them to where their faith should be, but for others they are ever learning and never able to come to the truth.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]if God were to do a miracle in front of a non-believer it wouldn't bring them to faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.</font><hr></blockquote><p> He does them daily doesn't He and they still believe not!!!

Tom,<br><br>Just to supplement what Joe said, here are 2 classic examples from scripture:<br><blockquote> Luke 16:<br>19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. <br>22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[3] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' <br>25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' <br>27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' <br>29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' <br>30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' <br>31"He said to him, '[color:red]If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead</font color=red>.' " </blockquote><br><br><blockquote> John 6<br>30So they asked him, "What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'[3] " <br>32Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." <br>34"Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread." <br>35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. <br></blockquote><br>See also John 9 and john 10. <br><br>In christ,<br>Carlos

Joe<br><br>Your warning is duly noted, I wouldn't want to provide information for anything other than to point to the gospel itself.<br>I have experienced the truth of what you have said personally. Most people will not even listen to a gospel message, until somebody shows from extra-biblical sources that the Bible's message could have any merit whatsoever. However in reality, it is not that they don't know from creation itself as Romans 1:20 says, it is that they are trying to justify their unbelief.<br><br>My point was more just to show him that he was not correct in saying that there was no evidence of miracles outside of the Bible.<br>I don't want to labor too long on that point, lest that takes the place of the gospel message. <br>Perhaps, I should just ignore his incorrect comments and stick with the gospel.<br>I hope you understand what I mean.<br><br>Tom<br>

Tom,

Have you ever wondered why there is no known "extra-biblical" evidence recorded of the miracles that God wrought throughout history? Think of it this way, If you were in need of information about a subject and there was only one source; one reliable source in the entire world, where that information could be found and where that information could be made clear to you, what would you do? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/ponder.gif" alt="ponder" title="ponder[/img]

All one needs to do is to see how the different religions of the world have handled alleged "evidence" and it should become instantly clear why God has not allowed "extra-biblical" evidence to exist which would allegedly verify God's intervention into human history. The Bible is God's "his-story" book, which He providentially brought into existence and guarded against error and embellishment, which men are more than prone to do. We must also never forget that the Scriptures are the means and power of God unto salvation. The Holy Spirit works with and through the message of the Bible to accomplish the most important work; a radical change of nature, in men, whereby faith is implanted making it possible for men to not only understand the reality of God, but also to have that reality applied to them personally.

There is a place for "evidences", but they are never sufficient to verify the Scriptures. For if they were, then evidence would be the infallible, inerrant source of truth which the Bible would be subject.

In His Grace,

Amen!<br><br>I has been my experience that most non-Christians I've talked to can't accept Christianity due to relativism or pride or rebelliousness rather than a lack of evidence.<br><br>I didn't know about historical and archaeological evidence until after I became a Christian.

Though I agree with you and Pilgrim, I have to admit that I have ran into Christians that tell me that they were first introduced to the possibility that the Bible was true, because they stumbled onto historical evidence that made them want to read the Bible accounts for themselves.<br><br>Tom

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Most people will not even listen to a gospel message, until somebody shows from extra-biblical sources that the Bible's message could have any merit whatsoever. </font><hr></blockquote><p> When they did not listen to Jesus, did He give them a book on Archeology and tell them to check it out or did He say, "Thus saith the Lord"?<br><br>Tell them to look up to ANY star and ask them how it was made. Ask them how stable hydrogen and helium atoms clump together into gas clouds and formed nebula? Ask them how hydrogen atoms fuse together and clouds are transformed into blazing balls of fire--called stars. Ask them where these stable hydrogen and helium atoms came from in the first place? Trace it back ALL the way. <br><br><blockquote>Job 9:7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. <br><br>Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; <br><br>Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names. </blockquote> Ask them WHY these stars were formed in the first place? <br><br><blockquote>Psalm 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. </blockquote> Ask them who controls these stars?<br><br><blockquote>Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. </blockquote> Now, tell me why an unbeliever needs a believer to give him a book on Archeology? Though the Bible is not an Astronomy book, it reveals some truth about the universe, though the Bible is not a science book, it reveals some truths about science, though the Bible is not a history book, it reveals some truths about history, though the Bible is not an Archeology book, it reveals some truth about Archeology, et. al. If the Bible says it, it is true! My point Tom is show an unbeliever the Bible, not the Bible plus.<br><br> Archeology and things like this are for us believers to look at and praise God as we continue to see His wonderful Word "confirmed" by findings in the universe He made. But, remember sciences are constantly changing and advancing (or disintegrating) and what appears to be true today, may appear false tomorrow. Don't help unbelievers chase "other books" help them chase THE BOOK.

Tom,<br><br>You are in luck. There is an extra-biblical story about one of the miracles of God (i.e. the Flood). It is an ancient Middle Eastern story (I've forgotten exactly where its from), but it is called "The Tale of Utnapishtim". Now, I would caution you about using this tale on your friend. It is pretty screwed up. Basically, the "gods" didn't like human beings because they were reproducing so fast, so they (the "gods") sent a world-wide flood to destroy human beings. But one man made a raft in time to survive the waters and so the plans of the evil "gods" were thwarted. Basically, the main thrust of this story is that man can overcome God (patently false). Like I said, its screwed up. But it is a record of a huge flood that pretty much wiped out humanity (and we only know of one of those, now, don't we?).