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#53850 - Thu May 18, 2017 10:02 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: goldenoldie]  
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I am a reformed Baptist, who agrees with calvinism, so my disagreement would be that ONLY churches teaching that message have saved persons in them, and that only reformed/calvinist pastors/teachers are really saved!

#53851 - Thu May 18, 2017 11:23 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: JesusFan]  
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JesusFan
It has been explained to you many times by myself and others here, that we are not saying there are not true Christians in non-Calvinist Churches. I have even told you before that I myself came out of a non-Calvinist Church. Yet, I believe I was saved before then.
In fact I will go one step further than this and say that until the Church I presently attend, I could not find a true Calvinist Church.

Tom

#53853 - Fri May 19, 2017 10:59 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: John_C]  
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I must be dense on this subject, but it does seem that some, not you, are stating that only what calvinists see as being the gospel will save a lost sinner period.

My viewpoint is that even when say a methodist arminian teaches and proclaims the death and resurrection of Jesus from the scriptures, even though they misunderstand what it fully means, the Spirit still convicts and saves, as Jesus as God is preached, as only hope for thelost sinner, his death/resurredction!

#53866 - Sat May 20, 2017 7:26 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: John_C]  
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Deliver Us From Pantheism

I feel it a duty to bear my solemn testimony against the spirit of the day we live in, to warn men against its infection. It is not Atheism I fear so much, in the present times, as Pantheism. It is not the system which says nothing is true, so much as the system which says everything is true. It is not the system which says there is no Savior, so much as the system which says there are many saviors, and many ways to peace! It is the system which is so liberal, that it dares not say anything is false. It is the system which is so charitable, that it will allow everything to be true. It is the system which seems ready to honor others as well as our Lord Jesus Christ, to class them all together, and to think well of all.

It is the system which is so careful about the feelings of others, that we are never to say they are wrong. It is the system which is so liberal that it calls a man a bigot, if he dares to say, I know my views are right. This is the system, this is the tone of feeling which I fear in this day, and this is the system which I desire emphatically to testify against and denounce. From the liberality which says everybody is right, from the charity which forbids us to say anybody is wrong, from the peace which is bought at the expense of truth may the good Lord deliver us!
~ J.C. Ryle


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
#53867 - Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: chestnutmare]  
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Many who say that they are arminian or at least non calvinist in their theology actually, when you press them further, will aclnpwledge that they could do nothing to save themselves, that they had to trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus to do that for them...

I have encountered few 'real classic arminians" in their theology do far...

#53868 - Sat May 20, 2017 9:31 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: JesusFan]  
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
Many who say that they are arminian or at least non calvinist in their theology actually, when you press them further, will aclnpwledge that they could do nothing to save themselves, that they had to trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus to do that for them...

I have encountered few 'real classic arminians" in their theology do far...

Your problem is that you have reduced the Gospel so far as to make it a non-Gospel so that myriads will give an assent to what is left and thus they are declared to be saved. Secondly, your gospel, which is no Gospel, is void of experimentalism because the law is noticeably absent as is the doctrine of original sin and the total depravity of man. Thus no Spirit-wrought conviction of sin is possible nor man's innate guiltiness before God exists. "Easy Believism" aptly describes this heresy.

Again, you insist WITHOUT A SHRED OF BIBLICAL SUPPORT, that the thrice Holy God uses lies, deceit, and falsehood in a "Madison Avenue" sales pitch to save sinners. I challenge you to bring forth ONE example from Scripture; the sole and final authority in all matters of faith and practice, where a false Gospel was sanctioned by Christ or the Apostles and where sinners were saved through this false gospel which you claim hordes of people are saved in your experience!!

I agree that there are few 'real classic Arminians" to be found. Things are much worse as the overwhelming majority of churches now espouse semi-Pelagianism.


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#53870 - Sat May 20, 2017 11:27 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: Pilgrim]  
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I hold with Original Sin, 5 ponts of Grace, that we are all sinners who cannot come to God to get saved apart from the external working of the Hoily Spirit Himself, that just the elect are saved by the Cross, and that when we are saved, its a changed person, as having new natures, not just a menatl assent to truth alone!

#53871 - Sat May 20, 2017 4:06 PM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: JesusFan]  
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
I hold with Original Sin, 5 ponts of Grace, that we are all sinners who cannot come to God to get saved apart from the external working of the Hoily Spirit Himself, that just the elect are saved by the Cross, and that when we are saved, its a changed person, as having new natures, not just a menatl assent to truth alone!

What does what you personally believe have to do with what you believe is the Gospel and which saves sinners? You constantly avoid the issue and simply repeat your Mantra that God the Spirit uses unbiblical, false gospels to bring people to salvation in Christ. You insist that Decisional Regeneration is sufficient to save. The "changed person" aka: regeneration, the new birth, being born anew/again PRECEDES repentance and faith. On the contrary you DO hold that mental assent to 3 or 4 propositions is sufficient to save. You have stated that many times. And I have pointed out to you that that heresy is known as "Sandemanianism", aka: Easy Believism. This is the practice among the overwhelming majority of evanjellical churches and even in some (many?) so-called Reformed churches. There is no salvation to be had in such man-made, unbiblical practices. But you insist that those who do so are saved. Yet, I have constantly challenged you to provide any biblical support and even one example where anyone was saved by believing a false, 'lowest-common-denominator' gospel. Show me one instance where Christ, or any prophet or Apostle uttered a false gospel which is what is found world-wide in a 10 second sound byte and someone was saved. If you cannot do that, then you are guilty of embracing a false doctrine and giving assent to a false gospel, a false methodology, and promoting a false assurance to those who have been deceived into believing they are right with God.

Enough of the nonsensical mantra. Open the inspired Word of God and prove that your view is of God.


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#53873 - Mon May 22, 2017 9:17 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: Pilgrim]  
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The Gospel message though to us is indeed saved by Grace alone thru faith alone correct?

#53874 - Mon May 22, 2017 11:01 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: JesusFan]  
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#53875 - Tue May 23, 2017 10:49 AM Re: What is the Lombardian Formula [Re: Pilgrim]  
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I agree with all of those!

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