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#54068 - Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:17 PM Reformed debates on Cultural transformationists vs Two Kingdom  
Joined: Sep 2001
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John_C Offline
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John_C  Offline

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Today, there seems to be an ongoing debate within the Reformed communities on the cultural transformationists vs Two Kingdom views.

Here is an article that I would like to get some feedback on. https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.or...two-kingdom-theology-and-neo-kuyperians/

I fall on the Two Kingdom side today as I see much problems in some church circles in the over emphasizing social justice, economic justice, you name it that seems to take the emphasis away from the church and individual sins, and replacing it with the cultural, environmental, etc domain. Even if we make the world a better place, then each of us has to deal with our sin nature, and just rebelling against God by sinning.

John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
#54069 - Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:15 PM Re: Reformed debates on Cultural transformationists vs Two Kingdom [Re: John_C]  
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Pilgrim Offline
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Pilgrim  Offline

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What you need to do is to DEFINE, "Two Kingdom" views. This term can be understood in different ways, e.g., there is the current debate in the OPC over Meredith Kline's view of the covenant which is sometimes referred to the "Two Kingdom Theology" or "The Republication Theory", concerning the matter of merit based upon works... etc. And, then there is the "Two Kingdom" view which is often associated with Lutheran theology. And, then there is the modern "Two Kingdom" theology view(s). I read the article and the author isn't someone I would personally give much credence to generally speaking.

I agree with where you are coming down on this debate. The Church's main calling is to call those who profess Christ to be sanctified in their own personal lives, to proclaim the Gospel to lost sinners, and to offer up biblical worship to the one true God. Although there may be times when the Church needs to stand firm against the world and condemn its politics, laws and/or practices, it is not its mandate to transform the world in order to bring about some "Golden Age". That is the final eschaton or the New Earth where righteousness dwells. Unfortunately, a worse danger than "cultural transformationists" are the "church transformationalists" that promote culturalization, i.e., morphing the Church to accommodate culture, which I like to describe as baptizing sin, or putting lipstick on a pig. giggle

[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

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#54072 - Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:17 AM Re: Reformed debates on Cultural transformationists vs Two Kingdom [Re: John_C]  
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Anthony C. Offline
Anthony C.  Offline

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I actually thought that was a pretty good article.....But ultimately I agree with Pilgrim that the biggest concern/threat is those trying to bring modern culture and concerns into the Church...... Not sure if God is concerned with cleaning up this world in a token sort of way..... I think we can use the current events of the world to show how depraved we are, but I think for me it's been an excuse to distract myself from my own heart, daily duty and Godly obedience..... So I have to go with a true 2 kingdom view...... Our best offense is to invite the lost sinner to have a seat under the true teaching and preaching of the Word....NOT the WORLD

Last edited by AJ Castellitto; Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:23 AM.
#54073 - Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:25 AM Re: Reformed debates on Cultural transformationists vs Two Kingdom [Re: John_C]  
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JesusFan Offline
JesusFan  Offline

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Macomb Michigan
Is this like whjn some in reformed/Charasmatic circles have attempted to "reclaim" the culture for Christ?

#54094 - Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:29 PM Re: Reformed debates on Cultural transformationists vs Two Kingdom [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline
Needs to get a Life

Joined: Apr 2001
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
When you talked about "cultural transformationists", are you talking about "theonomy", or "reconstructionism"?


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