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#54107 - Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:41 PM Ad Hominen Attack?  
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Tom Offline
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Tom  Offline
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Recently in a Facebook Reformed board, a person was recommending a book by Tim Keller.
I basically told him that I would rather not read a book by Tim Keller because he believes in things like theistic evolution, contemplative spirituality and a few other unorthodox things.
I then gave him an article to prove this.
The answer I received back basically said that even if what I said is true; there is no excuse for ad hominem attacks.
How would you respond to something like that?

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:43 PM.
#54108 - Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:08 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Tom]  
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Ad Hominem attacks? scratchchin Where did you 'attack' Keller's character?


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#54109 - Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:39 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Tom]  
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Didn't attack his character, I and the article I provided showed what he believed and taught.
Perhaps he believes they are one and the same? I did respond to him by asking him if it was Benny Hinn not Tim Keller; would it make a difference to him. He has not responded yet.
Tom

Last edited by Tom; Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:41 PM.
#54110 - Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:54 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Tom]  
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Quote
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is now usually understood as a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

However, its original meaning was an argument "calculated to appeal to the person addressed more than to impartial reason" [3]

Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[4][5][6] more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance.

However, in some cases, ad hominem attacks can be non-fallacious; i.e., if the attack on the character of the person is directly tackling the argument itself. For example, if the truth of the argument relies on the truthfulness of the person making the argumentórather than known factsóthen pointing out that the person has previously lied is not a fallacious argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


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#54111 - Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:32 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Tom Offline
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Perhaps if I give the article I gave him, it would help.
http://www.takeheed.info/tim-keller-and-christianity/

#54112 - Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:53 AM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Tom]  
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Tom, are you unaware that The Highway has several articles dealing with the teachings of Tim Keller? Go to the main page and do a search for the name and you may be surprised at all that has been put there over the past 22 years. I am surprised that you don't use them especially in your dealings with people on facebook where all sorts of men are held up like demi-gods. I won't bother to provide links to them as there are too many and it would be good for you to go and see for yourself what you might want to use.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
#54113 - Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:25 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: chestnutmare]  
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Tom Offline
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Yes, I am aware that you have articles on Tim Keller and I have read a few. The article I provided is from a Reformed Apologist named Cecil Andrews, that has actually spoke at the Church I attend.
He lives in Northern Ireland.
I have used many of the Highway's articles over the years as well.

Tom

#54124 - Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:01 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Tom]  
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Tom Offline
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Just for those who are interested. I think I wasted my time trying to show the person what Keller believes.
The latest is that he said all the proof I have given him is disputable and dependant on your interpretation of what he says.
He also says that because he is an elder people need to talk to him personally.
When it was pointed out that a lot of effort has been given to contacting him. He stated that it is because of the way people are calling him a heretic; why would he even try to respond with that accusation?
It basically comes down to the fact that this person has bought into the lie, that elders are bullit proof.

#54125 - Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:05 PM Re: Ad Hominen Attack? [Re: Tom]  
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1. The majority of reliable critiques of Tim Keller are based upon Keller's writings and public statements, which are documented. It is not a matter of interpretation.

2. Methinks that this person.....pure conjecture on my part, has put Tim Keller on a pedestal and embraces what Keller teaches and thus is given to defend him against all the evidence presented. He may have an extreme view of the impeccability of the Eldership. But if that was true, and if he was consistent, then no elder would be subject to scrutiny which is biblically indefensible.


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