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The Piper debate and FV controversy
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Cultural Marxism=Multicultura
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by goldenoldie. Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:35 AM
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#54414 - Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:42 AM Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism?  
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Recently I was told about something called ‘cultural Marxism’ that I was told that in western culture it is better known as ‘multiculturalism’. As I searched a little further; what I found is that is supposedly about “white genocide”. Among the things it said: “Mass third world immigration= White Genocide”. Another article I was: http://pulpitandpen.org/2017/10/06/lecrae-divorcing-white-evangelicalism/
If there is one thing I do not want to do, is be guilty of bearing false witness, but some of this makes sense of what we are seeing in our society today.
There were a few things in one of the articles that bothered me, coming from one of those articles. It said it is wrong for someone to marry someone of another race. As I read that, it almost sounded like a KKK member was saying it.
Thoughts?

Tom

#54415 - Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:18 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Tom]  
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Sorry, but I don't quite grasp what you are wanting to know? Multiculturalism and now in the Western world "Identity Politics" an expanded application of multiculturalism, are the center of much debate. Of course, the divisions of race and cultures is God's judgment upon mankind (Gen 11:5-9) and it can never be changed EXCEPT through regeneration by the Holy Spirit Who brings the elect out of this world into the true Church. Within the true Church there is no multiculturalism nor identity politics. Nor is there any acceptance of the sins of this world, e.g., sexual identity, LGBTQ, etc.

Did you know that your blessed Canada is accredited with starting modern multiculturalism? evilgrin

Quote
The Canadian government has often been described as the instigator of multicultural ideology because of its public emphasis on the social importance of immigration.[15][16] The Canadian Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism is often referred to as the origins of modern political awareness of multiculturalism.[17] In the Western English-speaking countries, multiculturalism as an official national policy started in Canada in 1971, followed by Australia in 1973 where it is maintained today.[18][19][20][21] It was quickly adopted as official policy by most member-states of the European Union. Wikipedia on Multiculturalism


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#54416 - Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:11 PM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Pilgrim
The link I gave explains what I am talking about.

Tom

#54417 - Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:58 PM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Tom]  
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Originally Posted by Tom
Pilgrim
The link I gave explains what I am talking about.

Yes, I visited the link, read the entire article but I am not sure what YOU are asking? shrug


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#54418 - Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:06 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Tom]  
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I have tried to form my question clearer; but I was not able to.
But I guess what I am asking is what the article said true?

I also asked my pastor to look at the issue as well and he told me it is all too real and all Christians should be concerned. I also did further research and found out that this is mostly true. However, there are people on both sides of the issue that go too far. Socialists tend to use the issues for their own agendas. Yet the far right seems to deny that racism is a problem at all. One person who claims to be a NYC police officer. ( I confirmed this) and a Reformed Christian. Claimed that racism is way overblown and anyone who says different has fallen prey to the liberal agenda. He also stated that racism is nowhere mentioned in the Bible and is not a sin.
The problem however, is racism is a fact that can not be denied. I have seen racism in action and I have had a bit of it happen to me as well.
Lacrae the supposed Christian Rap artist recently says he has separated himself from "White Evangelicalism" and John Piper has actually defended him. The fact that Lacrae said this does not really surprise me, seeing how he is very shallow in his theology anyway, having wrote some of the music for the movie 'The Shack'. The reason Piper seemed to defend him seemed to be concerning the very real racism some blacks get on an almost daily basis. Yet, like many of the things Piper has done in the last 10 years or so, they are very unwise and I am stating that mildly.

The answer of course is the Gospel that breaks down the barriers and unites all in Christ. When I hear of Christians using racism, I take it to mean that they have yet to understand the Gospel in that area of their lives.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:12 AM.
#54420 - Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:53 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Tom]  
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1. Yes, I believe the issue dealt with in the article is reasonably accurately described, re: the Left's social agenda, etc. Although the Left, both politically and religiously is far more widespread and dangerous that what was described.

2. Lacrae should be dismissed just on the basis of who he is... a "rapper" whose alleged profession of faith is hardly credible... (unless, of course, you are an Evanjellycal or a Tolerant Calvinist). And yes, I have listened to some of that horrid sound some call 'music' and the lyrics were not theologically sound. Just the mention of "The Shack" should send shivers down any true Christian's spine. drop

3. The "far right" isn't really an accurate term to use since most all individuals who are "Rght", vs. Left either politically or religiously reject the "far right" and want no association with them whatsoever. I am referring to such groups as the KKK, Kinists, White Supremacists, etc. Yes, there is racism in the world, in the U.S. and even in Canada. Racism is nearly universally possessed throughout the world. It is the natural and expected expression of man's depravity; hatred of God, fellowman and even oneself and of course a deep hatred of all that is holy, good and right. The statement of the NYC police officer, was not of course, validated and thus is nothing more than gossip here. However, anyone who would claim that racism isn't a sin and not mentioned in the Bible obviously hasn't read the Bible or has no ability to comprehend what it says. Just the divine command to "love your neighbor as yourself" which is mentioned several times and its application found many times negates any such silly idea. Those who profess to be Christians but are racist demonstrate the antithesis which is so common in our day and which people simply dismiss as an "inconsistency" or the expression of a "lack of proper teaching". rolleyes2

Quote
1 John 3:4-10 (ASV) "Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him. [My] little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous: he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

1 John 3:14 (ASV) "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not abideth in death."

1 John 3:17 (ASV) "But whoso hath the world's goods, and beholdeth his brother in need, and shutteth up his compassion from him, how doth the love of God abide in him?"


The current trend to give all who profess to be Christians the benefit of the doubt, despite what they believe and/or how they live is of the Devil and is one of the main reasons that we see the corruption and disintegration of the visible church. The "Big Tent" doctrine is not taught in Scripture and it surely doesn't work in the political realm either. Here is what the Apostle John wrote in regard to how the Lord Christ viewed the profession of faith in most people:

Quote
John 2:23-25 (ASV) "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, during the feast, many believed on his name, beholding his signs which he did. But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man."


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#54421 - Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:04 PM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Tom]  
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Pilgrim
Sorry I was not clear enough before for you to understand my question.

What you said, is basically the understanding that I am getting.
Years ago you used (as you did in your reply) the term "evangellycalism". I think the term hits the nail squarely on the head, compared to what the term "evangelicalism" was originally meant to convey.

I will say that the I am not a fan of 'Pulpit and Pen' or JD Hall.
He has misrepresented a few ministries and even when he has been confronted and asked to sit down and discuss the issues he has concerns with. He continues to spread misinformation. I will give you an example of what I am talking about if asked.

Thanks for your help in the matter.
Tom

#54422 - Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:30 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Pilgrim]  
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Pilgrim you made this statement, "The "far right" isn't really an accurate term to use since most all individuals who are "Rght", vs. Left either politically or religiously reject the "far right" and want no association with them whatsoever." I'm wondering if the same could be said of the left?

And, on racism. I'm not sure if it is truly racism that causes the gulf between people. I'm thinking it might be may be more to do with culture in that the predominant black culture have adopted values so far away from the so-called protestant work ethic.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
#54423 - Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:39 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: John_C]  
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Originally Posted by John_C
Pilgrim you made this statement, "The "far right" isn't really an accurate term to use since most all individuals who are "Rght", vs. Left either politically or religiously reject the "far right" and want no association with them whatsoever." I'm wondering if the same could be said of the left?

That's a legitimate question. But, what would be the equivalent of the views and practices of the so-called "far right" which are associated with the "far left"? Those groups mentioned who are called by the Left the "far right" are a very small minority compared to those who make up the recognized conservative Right.

Originally Posted by John_C
And, on racism. I'm not sure if it is truly racism that causes the gulf between people. I'm thinking it might be may be more to do with culture in that the predominant black culture have adopted values so far away from the so-called protestant work ethic.

1. I do not believe that racism is predominant in the U.S, i.e., that there is a deliberate attempt by the vast majority of people to harm non-Caucasians or to give unwarranted preference to Caucasions in the workplace, etc. The Left has pushed their divisive agenda for decades, i.e., alleging that anyone who is non-Caucasion, female, straight, et al are victims and oppressed in this country. That attempt is self-serving for the Left promises to protect and 'provide' for all these individuals/groups for a cost... their votes.

2. Re: culture. It isn't simply Black cultural values which are "so far away from the so-called protestant work ethic.". The entire country's cultural values and ethics in general is antithetical to Protestant (biblical/Reformed) values and ethics. Yes, due to God's restraint of sin, there are some who outwardly express those biblical values and ethics. However, I see that there is a majority of the population who are 'at war' with God and all that He requires of man. The modern visible church is partly to blame for it has adopted worldly values and practices and even incorporated them into their worship. The true Gospel is rarely heard from pulpits, especially in the core doctrines of man's depravity and the holiness of God and His wrath and judgment against sin/sinners.

Quote
Colossians 2:8-15 (ASV) "Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ: for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and in him ye are made full, who is the head of all principality and power: in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, [I say], did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross; having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it."


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#54425 - Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:56 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Pilgrim]  
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I wonder what would be the largest trait differences between the West and East? I mean places like Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, & Singapore are as financially well off. They both must share some of the same industrious characteristics, but societies in most other ways are entirely different. Is it Christianity? Not the invisible one, but the outward visible one.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
#54427 - Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:23 PM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: Tom]  
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I thought I would mention one more thing regarding "white evangelicalism"
This probably will not come as a shock to anyone. However, there is a big time left leaning push from New Calvinist leaders such a Tim Keller with white evangelicals.
Tom

#54428 - Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:35 AM Re: Cultural Marxism=Multiculturalism? [Re: John_C]  
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Originally Posted by John_C
I wonder what would be the largest trait differences between the West and East? I mean places like Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, & Singapore are as financially well off. They both must share some of the same industrious characteristics, but societies in most other ways are entirely different. Is it Christianity? Not the invisible one, but the outward visible one.


I think that there are 2 major requirements for a nation to thrive:

1. Rule of Law/Property Rights
2. Cultural identity and solidarity

The chief enemies of 1. are censorship, central banking, the welfare state, and crony capitalism. The chief enemies of 2. are uncontrolled immigration, affirmative action, and failure to establish and promote a consistent national identity.

The people of a nation will be industrious when these two conditions are in place, to a degree that reflects the strength or weakness of these conditions in that nation.

The cultural identity of the West is visible Christianity. The East, so far as they are influenced by the West, benefit from the invisible influence of Christianity in their legal systems, which promotes 1.

The problem with cultural Christianity is that it cannot be established and nurtured merely by social traditions. It has to come from the soild teaching of the church. I believe that the Apostle's Creed is the bare minimum that a church must profess in order to be culurally relevant. The current position of the Visegrad nations and Russia on the issue of Islamic migration, in contrast to Western Europe and Scandinavia, demonstrates this. While salvation is not certain without a heartfelt understanding of justification as taught by the Reformers, what is certain is that the abandonment of Christianity by the West will lead to its collapse.


In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

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