Donations for the month of September


We have received a total of $0 in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Search

Member Spotlight
ReformedDisciple
ReformedDisciple
Dallas, Tx USA
Posts: 67
Joined: July 2018
Show All Member Profiles 
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics6,683
Posts51,427
Members928
Most Online373
Mar 5th, 2017
Top Posters(All Time)
Pilgrim 13,511
Tom 3,523
chestnutmare 2,920
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,769
RJ_ 1,582
MarieP 1,578
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 18
Tom 15
Meta4 2
Johan 2
John_C 1
Recent Posts
Same Sex Atraction
by Pilgrim. Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:34 AM
What will it like to live in Heaven
by Pilgrim. Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:32 PM
Bill 89 taking children from Christian homes
by Tom. Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:10 PM
Pay Taxes
by Tom. Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:54 PM
Isaac Watts and the Trinity
by Pilgrim. Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:58 AM
Jury Duty
by ReformedDisciple. Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:07 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Dispensationalism #54880
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 PM
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,523
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,523
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
I have a question related to Dispensationalism.
I have heard it said that many Dispensationalists actually believe that salvation is different for Jews than it is for Gentiles.
I am trying to find out if this is a truthful statement and if so, who are the main teachers who believe it?

Tom

Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #54881
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:25 AM
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,512
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,512
NH, USA
Originally Posted by Tom
I have heard it said that many Dispensationalists actually believe that salvation is different for Jews than it is for Gentiles.

Yes, there have been and continue to be some who believe that the Jews are saved in a different manner than are Gentiles. Such individuals/groups often were called 'hyper-Dispensationalists', 'Acts 28' or 'Acts 29' Dispensationalists. They so bifurate the Bible that they believe that parts of the New Testament only applies to Jews or Gentiles. IF I remember rightly, I think? one of the major proponents of this extreme view was Ethelbert William Bullinger (E.W. Bullinger) [cf. E.W. Bullinger].

Modified or Progressive Dispensationalism, e.g., as taught by John MacArthur are not of this group, albeit they have their own problems/errors, strongly reject the view that Jews are saved differently than Gentiles. How widespread the ultra/hyper-Dispensational view(s) are today is anyone's guess. I suspect it is greatly under represented among the church at large.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #54882
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:54 AM
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,769
Mississippi Gulf Coast
John_C Online content

Permanent Resident
John_C  Online Content

Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,769
Mississippi Gulf Coast
I heard that too back in the early 80s when I first became aware of biblical theology. I think Pilgrim gives a good synopsis between them and the newer current dispensationalists. Maybe why the former is not seen around much anymore is the influence of popular radio preachers such as McGee, MacArthur, Jeremiah, Swindoll. I'm I forgetting anyone.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #54884
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:31 PM
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:31 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 243
NJ/PA
Anthony C. Offline
Enthusiast
Anthony C.  Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 243
NJ/PA
Originally Posted by Tom
I have a question related to Dispensationalism.
I have heard it said that many Dispensationalists actually believe that salvation is different for Jews than it is for Gentiles.
I am trying to find out if this is a truthful statement and if so, who are the main teachers who believe it?

Tom

Wait a second, if that is not a main component of what they believe, how do those who don't believe that view the salvation of Jews?

Last edited by Anthony C.; Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:32 PM.
Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Anthony C.] #54885
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:20 PM
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,512
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,512
NH, USA
"Progressive" Dispensationalists, e.g., John MacArthur believe that justification is by grace through faith in Christ Alone for everyone. But they still believe that God has a special place in His 'heart' for the Jews, etc. etc.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #54888
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:45 PM
Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
IL
K
Kaylin Offline
Plebeian
Kaylin  Offline
Plebeian
K
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 13
IL
When I saw this post, I thought of this article re: Pope Francis position statement "the Jews still hold special covenantal relation with God".
https://richardedmondson.net/2014/01/13/the-jewish-covenant-with-god-according-to-pope-francis-2/
The article and commentary get to the crux of the controversy, which is in this case, what is meant by "Old Covenant" and "their covenant". After prominent Catholics, such as E. Michael Jones refuted the document as veering from Catholic historical teaching regarding the Jews, the catechism was changed, but its intention remains ambiguous to critics. The document was never considered 'ex-cathedra' but still, the Catholic Church, has been confusing and evolving its stance on this teaching as well as ecumenism in all senses.

Meanwhile, in Evangelical churches, false teachers such as Hagee claim the Jews are saved without Christ. And mainline dispensationalist churches have another heretical understanding of physical Israel and the Jews.

And politically speaking, and blurring the lines, the American government together with the Christian right (including Evangelicals and Catholics) have been advocating policy based upon heretical "Judeo-Christian eschatology" ..the presumption of a biblical mandate, even an end-times "third temple" mandate. Mainstream news outlets have been covering these stories for some time.

Recently, the Vatican rightly condemned what it referred to as "apocalyptic" fear politics, and many non-dispensationalist Christians are waking up to how rampant the situation is.

Trump as annointed "Cyrus", "appointed by God", "King of the World", "the Trump Prophecies", etc. Liberty University is creating a feature film based on "the Trump Prophecies" (against the wishes and petition of its film/media students).

Against the din and silence of all of the above, a very tiny few souls are actively vocalizing a different concern.

Historic understanding of the gospel, covenants and the significance of 70 AD and "it is finished" vs. TBN and The Jim Baker and their many friends freak show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkvjbvhm-lI -- "Trump Prophecy" - Sid Roth and audience
Trump Coin- Jerusalem Temple

Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Kaylin] #54889
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:13 AM
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,512
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,512
NH, USA
For quite a long period of time in the past, the Roman State Church adhered to a quasi? Amillennial position. Rome is and always has been a religious chameleon depending upon what location they occupied and what pope was enthroned as the "Vicar of Christ". Accommodation to local customs and beliefs regardless of how pagan they are is Roman policy/practice. However, Rome's theological position has been relatively consistent, with a few exceptions where liberal popes have pronounced some really bizarre things. The 'out' has aways been the expected phrase, "But none of that was give EX-CATHEDRA", which is their way of saying, you can take whatever was said with a grain of salt because it isn't officially binding. As an aside, it is interesting to read/hear professing Catholics have so little interest in their church and often disagree and even ridicule it for some of its doctrines. And yet, at least in the U.S. lamestream media, when it mentions Christianity, the majority of the time the reference is to the Roman State Church as if IT is the recognized representative. igiveup

Most Dispensationalists, regardless of what type they profess to be are not governed by Scripture but by daily headline news, which they claim is the fulfillment of some biblical prophecy which is proof that Armageddon is right around the corner and the 1000 year millennium will soon be here... i.e., if you are a pre-Trib Dispie. rolleyes2


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Dispensationalism [Re: Pilgrim] #54890
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 PM
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,523
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,523
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Pilgrim
Shhhhhh, a Dispi might see your post lol .
I have always wondered why those who do not believe in the Amii position, do not use the fact that the Roman Catholic Church believes in the Amil position against us A-mils.
I know some Dispi's that do not even believe in the Apostles Creed, because in their words it is a "Roman Catholic document." They even question the fact that the Protestant Reformation was effected by the writings of Roman Catholic Augustine. They say Augustine was a heretic.

Tom


Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 25 guests, and 97 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
reformedbygrace, ReformedDisciple, Micki Bowman, Nigel J, wischnotes
928 Registered Users
Shout Box
September
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Today's Birthdays
Sirdude
Popular Topics(Views)
809,347 Gospel truth
Page Time: 0.160s Queries: 15 (0.061s) Memory: 2.8810 MB (Peak: 3.1734 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-20 19:55:06 UTC