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Tom
Tom
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Re: Wesleyan Prevenient Grace [Re: Tom] #55127
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:09 PM
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,620
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,620
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Pilgrin
I in no way was trying to even hint that my personal experience is necessarily true of all Reformed Christians. Forgive me if it seemed like I was saying that.
Nevertheless I have been in Reformed circles for quite some time now and I don't remember anyone believing that common grace is related to effectual saving grace.
Again, that does not mean that my personal experience covers the whole gammit of those who concider themselves Reformed. I believe people like RC Sproul used it in a non-salvific sense.
Concerning John Murrays and Ned Stonehouse's booklet. I don't recall it; but then again that doesn't mean I have never come accross it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Tom

Re: Wesleyan Prevenient Grace [Re: Tom] #55128
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:23 PM
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,583
NH, USA
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Pilgrim  Offline

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I quote your above reply:
Originally Posted by Tom
I personally don't know anyone who associates the terms with salvation.

I noticed in your reply above, you switched horses in the middle of the stream and you wrote:

Originally Posted by Tom
...I don't remember anyone believing that common grace is related to effectual saving grace.

As I tried to point out, the popular teaching of "common grace" has and continues to influence the content of the Gospel, which is a serious corruption of the biblical Gospel and thus no gospel at all. For those embracing this doctrine constantly insist that God loves everyone without exception and sincerely desires (wills) that all without exception should be saved. They are not teaching that common grace is "effectual" nor "saving". However, as I have already written more than once, it is most certainly related to salvation because it negatively changes the Gospel "which is the power of God unto salvation".

There is no such thing as "common" grace!! God's grace is never common but discriminatory; reserved for the elect, those whom the Father gave to the Lord Christ to redeem and whom the Spirit effectually calls unto Christ through repentance and faith. Beneficence, God's philanthropy toward all men is not to be conflated with GRACE. In fact, all the general goodness of God which he showers upon all men as He determines are without question good things. And it is because they are good and come from God, they will be used as evidence against men at the judgment for they are without thankfulness to God for them, even life itself.


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Re: Wesleyan Prevenient Grace [Re: Pilgrim] #55129
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:29 PM
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,620
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Quote
Beneficence, God's philanthropy toward all men is not to be conflated with GRACE. In fact, all the general goodness of God which he showers upon all men as He determines are without question good things. And it is because they are good and come from God, they will be used as evidence against men at the judgment for they are without thankfulness to God for them, even life itself.

Personally speaking, although I will be nitpicky if people use the term ‘common grace’ to refer to anything other than “Beneficence, God's philanthropy toward all men.” I will not make a big deal about the issue otherwise.
In a way (not perfectly), this reminds me of some Reformed people I have run into that protest against the term “Calvinism”. They state that the term is too misleading and therefore should never be used. There is of course some truth in this, because in this day and age even some 4 pointers call themselves “Calvinists”. However, they protest too loudly.

Tom

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