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Pilgrim
Pilgrim
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History of Calvinism
by Tom. Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:45 PM
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by Pilgrim. Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:51 AM
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by Pilgrim. Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:20 PM
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Concerning a Spurgeon Quote
by Tom. Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:02 PM
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Concerning a Spurgeon Quote #55443
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:45 PM
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:45 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Hi
An Arminian quoted Spurgeon recently to show that Spurgeon is not a consistent Calvinist. I am trying to find the whole context of this quote, because it is fairly easy to take anything out of context to supposedly prove your point. My guess is at some point, ‘The-Highway’ has dealt with this before.

Quote
If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate." CH Spurgeon


Unfortunately, the responses that are coming back from Calvinists are basically that Spurgeon was wrong on this issue. They don’t seem to want to find out the context of this.

Tom

Re: Concerning a Spurgeon Quote [Re: Tom] #55444
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 PM
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 PM
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So what is the problem with the alleged quote by Spurgeon which is said shows he is not a "consistent Calvinist"? shrug


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Re: Concerning a Spurgeon Quote [Re: Pilgrim] #55445
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:18 PM
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:18 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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It is being used to try to prove that Spurgeon believed faith precedes regeneration. Calvinists are not even disputing it and I thought before I decide if I want to weigh into the conversation, I better look into the matter more. I just did a Google search and there are a few Arminian links that have this same quote to try to prove Spurgeon believe faith precedes regeneration. I have yet to find the full context of this quote however.

Tom

Re: Concerning a Spurgeon Quote [Re: Tom] #55446
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:44 PM
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:44 PM
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Here's the quote again... and it matters not whether it belongs to Spurgeon or to someone else.

Quote
If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate." CH Spurgeon

If a man IS regenerated, then de facto, faith being the fruit of regeneration, the man took hold of Christ and thus that man has been justified. Those arguing that the quote proves faith precedes regeneration do so because their presupposition is that faith precedes regeneration. Or to put it another way, they have already decided that regeneration is the result of one believing, rather than faith is the result of regeneration. Thus, they are reading into (aka: eisogesis) the quote their own presupposition rather than taking the quote as it is which clearly argues that a regenerated person IS ALREADY saved because he being regenerated he CONSEQUENTLY repented and believed upon Christ and thus has been justified and reconciled to God.

In myriad places within Spurgeon's sermons and writings, he incontrovertibly believed that man is spiritually DEAD and thus regeneration wrought by the Holy Spirit is a necessary prerequisite in order for a person to believe unto salvation. For decades, there have been those who embrace Arminianism/semi-Pelagianism who have tried to claim Spurgeon was of the same mind as themselves. rofl nono


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Re: Concerning a Spurgeon Quote [Re: Pilgrim] #55447
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:10 AM
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:10 AM
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Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim
I have read Spurgeon before and I think it is quite clear he believed that regeneration precedes faith. His sermon 'Faith and Regeneration' proves this. With that in mind, I doubt very much that Spurgeon is saying what Arminians (probably semi-Pelagians) think it is saying. However, saying that, given the quote as is, I am not sure what his point is without more of the context. I agree with your understanding given what I have read from Spurgeon before of what Spurgeon is probably saying. However, his wording confuses me and given the response by other Calvinists it does them as well.
Tom

Re: Concerning a Spurgeon Quote [Re: Tom] #55448
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:19 AM
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:19 AM
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I'll stick my neck out here by admitting I do not know the source/context of the quote, or even if it belongs to Spurgeon, nor if it is an actual quote if it is accurate to the words penned. But as I wrote above, it doesn't matter who wrote or said those words, they are biblically sound, i.e., they are true. So, my guess is that what is before me is apparently someone saying that regenerate individuals have by the Spirit's life-giving work through the hearing/reading of the Gospel, repented of their sins and genuinely believed upon Christ. And thus there is no need for someone to preach to them the Gospel and urge them to repent and believe upon Christ. The Gospel is for those yet dead in sins and that it is through the means of the Gospel that sinners who are dead in sin are regenerated by the Spirit and made both able and willing to repent and believe unto salvation.

I will add that I personally know of several individuals and even denominations what might disagree with the above. They believe that the Gospel is to be preached to everyone; both unbelievers and believers because: a) one cannot infallibly know who is actually regenerate and b) believers need to be constantly reminded of the Gospel. Those are the two main reasons they give. But invariably, this type of thinking most always results in the twisting of the Scriptures to make every passage in it an evangelical call to repentance and faith, and no less serious is that the sheep are rarely if ever fed because they are viewed as those needing only to come to Christ and not those who need to walk in Christ as adopted sons of God.


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Re: Concerning a Spurgeon Quote [Re: Pilgrim] #55449
Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:02 PM
Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:02 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim
Again, I believe you are correct about what the quote meant. However, from experience in things like this without more context, I do not believe it is worth giving my opinion about what the quote is saying.
In that conversation I did however show that Spurgeon did believe regeneration preceded faith. I provided a link to Spurgeon’s sermon ‘Faith and Regeneration’ to show this. I interjected, that with this in mind it is doubtful that the quote supports faith preceding regeneration.
That was yesterday and nobody has responded to what I said.

Tom


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