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Sinless Perfectionism #55526
Thu May 16, 2019 10:19 PM
Thu May 16, 2019 10:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,715
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,715
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
First of all, I know I run into a lot of strange people. whistle
How would you deal with someone who advocates both ‘Open Theism’ and “sinless perfectionism.”
He is trying also to say that there is not one Scripture that says Christ paid for our sins after we are saved. He also claims the following:
Quote
Justin Martyr and all the early fathers agreed with "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (I John 3:9). So did Wesley and Oswald Chambers. Justin Martyr, our most famous Christian martyr (100-165AD) wrote to the emperor, "Christians do no wrong." (First Apology).

I think this faith is based on Deut 30:11-14 which says obeying the law of the lord is so easy we need no one to teach us because God has written it on our hearts and minds so we can obey. In Rom 10:6-8 Paul calls it faith and says "this is the word of faith we are proclaiming to you." He contrasts it to Lev (vs. 5).


I quoted 1 John 2:1-2 to him and he disagrees that is saying what I think it is saying. Yet, in his explanation he comes very close, but I am about ready to give up conversing with him; but thought I would ask this first.

Tom

Re: Sinless Perfectionism [Re: Tom] #55527
Fri May 17, 2019 5:59 AM
Fri May 17, 2019 5:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,674
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Posts: 13,674
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Obviously, this individual denies the biblical doctrine of sanctification and fails to grasp the correct understanding of the doctrine of regeneration (what it does and what it does not do). Justification qualifies us for heaven but Sanctification prepares us for heaven. Christians are being conformed to the image of Christ by the putting off the "old man" and putting on the "new man". For anyone to claim that they have never committed one sin since their alleged conversion is ludicrous and that person is woefully self-deceived. It is the Spirit that enlightens one's mind, heart and soul to the fact that they are filled with sin and shall be until they are glorified. What is true is that legally, Christians are perfect due to the imputation of Christ's perfect righteousness and no longer liable to punishment due to transgressions of the law of God due to His vicarious, substitutionary death on the cross. The Bible is rife with passages which speak to the issue of sanctification and the need of a professing believer to keep themselves from sin, both within and from without. Here are a couple of salient passages among many that speak against perfectionism.

1Jh 1:8-10 "8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Rom 7:12-25 "So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. 13 Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good;—that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. 16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. 19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. 20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 21 I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Sinless Perfectionism [Re: Tom] #55529
Tue May 21, 2019 12:35 AM
Tue May 21, 2019 12:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,715
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,715
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Pilgrim

Thought I would let you know that, since the time I posted what I did above. This person and others started to post to get personal and attack Calvinists. When I tried to intervene, one person in particular called me a liar. I decided I no longer want to be involved in any forum that started doing that kind of thing and got rid of my membership.

Tom

Re: Sinless Perfectionism [Re: Tom] #55530
Tue May 21, 2019 4:47 AM
Tue May 21, 2019 4:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,674
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

Head Honcho
Pilgrim  Offline

Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,674
NH, USA
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simul iustus et peccator

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