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Is Roman Catholic Baptism Valid? #55535
Sat May 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Sat May 25, 2019 8:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,662
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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Tom  Offline OP
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I want to preface this by saying I would like to leave the Paedo vs Credo issue out of this discussion.

In a Reformed discussion board, the question was asked: Is Roman Catholic baptism valid as long as it is performed by a qualified minister?

Observing the responses, to which I added my two cents; the consensus seems to be that yes Roman Catholic baptism that is done by a Roman Catholic minister in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is valid. They go onto say that it is valid because it is really God that does the baptism, not the minister.

My response was that I disagreed because the Roman Catholic Church preaches a false Gospel and therefore the Roman Catholic Church is a false Church and its ministers are not true ministers. Therefore, I believe a Roman Catholic baptism is not valid.
I received a response that a Roman Catholic minister is a qualified minister. They went onto say that Donatism has infested many Reformed Churches on this topic.
I was a little surprised at this, especially coming from people who are opposed to the Roman Catholic Church.

I thought of something that may or may not be valid to this discussion.
If what I am told about Mormonism is correct, they also baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They also believe that only a qualified minister is permitted to baptize.
If we allow RC baptisms as valid, should not we also allow Mormon baptisms as valid?

I did however find something interesting as I as studying the issue.
Quote
XXVIII. In this belief we declare that, properly speaking, there can be no Church where the Word of God is not received, nor profession made of subjection to it, nor use of the sacraments. Therefore we condemn the papal assemblies, as the pure Word of God is banished from them, their sacraments are corrupted, or falsified, or destroyed, and all superstitions and idolatries are in them. We hold, then, that all who take part in these acts, and commune in that Church, separate and cut themselves off from the body of Christ Nevertheless, as some trace of the Church is left in the papacy, and the virtue and substance of baptism remain, and as the efficacy of baptism does not depend upon the person who administers it, we confess that those baptized in it do not need a second baptism. But, on account of its corruptions, we can not present children to be baptized in it without incurring pollution.
FRENCH CONFESSION (1559).


Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tom

Last edited by Tom; Sat May 25, 2019 9:01 PM.
Re: Is Roman Catholic Baptism Valid? [Re: Tom] #55536
Sun May 26, 2019 6:57 AM
Sun May 26, 2019 6:57 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Quote
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
SECTION TWO
THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS OF THE CHURCH

CHAPTER ONE
THE SACRAMENTS OF CHRISTIAN INITIATION

ARTICLE 1
THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5

1. Donatism is a mute argument because it is the error that teaches and demands that a minister/priest be 'faultless' in order for the administration of a sacrament to be valid, which Scripture refutes knowing that NO ONE is faultless other than Christ.

2. The real issue is in the definition a church/individual believes re: baptism. As seen from the above quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, baptism cleanses the recipient of Original Sin and effects regeneration and thus declares that individual to be saved (at least in part IF the person continues in the "faith", etc.).

3. As a biblical Reformed Christian, I must reject the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, &co., Anglican Church and some fringe Protestant Churches that hold to baptismal regeneration. Those who have been taught as adults in those communities and have submitted to baptism hold to damnable heresy and are therefore not saved and any profession of faith is not credible and membership into a true church is not open to them.

4. Contrary to the belief of many, both Protestant and other denominations, baptism is NOT by definition "An outward sign of an inward reality". IF one accepts that statement at face value, then ALL, without exception who are baptized actually possess what baptism symbolizes, the washing away of sins in the blood of Christ and the imputation of Christ's perfect righteousness unto justification, the indwelling of the Spirit, the adoption by God into His kingdom, etc.

The short of it for me is simple, Roman Catholic baptism and baptism administered by any other heretic group is invalid based upon fundamental doctrinal error taught and believed by both the administrator and recipient. This does not directly address the heresy of "presumptive regeneration" held by some Reformed and non-Reformed denominations/churches.

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Re: Is Roman Catholic Baptism Valid? [Re: Tom] #55537
Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 PM
Tue May 28, 2019 10:57 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 249
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Anthony C. Offline
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Anthony C.  Offline
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Yes 100% valid.... as far as you leave the RCC for a biblically Reformed Church if provided the opportunity to properly discern

If you remain, its a long shot....

Last edited by Anthony C.; Tue May 28, 2019 11:03 PM.
Re: Is Roman Catholic Baptism Valid? [Re: Anthony C.] #55566
Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:41 PM
Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,662
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,662
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Anthony
Sorry, for some reason I missed your reply. Hopefully it is not too late.

So you believe Roman Catholic baptism is valid?
I must disagree and for the same reasons Pilgrim mentioned.
Quote
The short of it for me is simple, Roman Catholic baptism and baptism administered by any other heretic group is invalid based upon fundamental doctrinal error taught and believed by both the administrator and recipient. This does not directly address the heresy of "presumptive regeneration" held by some Reformed and non-Reformed denominations/churches.


The rest of what you said, if I understand what you are getting at. You appear to think that I attend the RCC and I should leave for a biblically Reformed Church. I have no idea, what caused you to believe that I attend the RCC. I can assure you that I attend a biblically Reformed Church.

Tom


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