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Anthony C.
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Christianity and the Law
by Pilgrim. Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:18 PM
John Piper view on final salvation by works
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Christianity and the Law #55608
Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:39 PM
Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:39 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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For those who might be interested I am providing a link concerning the clash of world views that is happening in our world today, as it pertains to the law.
This particular link is pertaining to the law in Canada, however from what I am reading/hearing from the USA, is not much different.

http://www.christianlegalfellowship.org/blog

It is meant for information purposes, however I thought it might spark some discussion.

Tom

Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55610
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:42 AM
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:42 AM
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This whole denigration and even denial of objective truth among all of the world's societies opens the floodgate to such irrational judgments by the courts, which IMO are nothing less than the beliefs and expressions of the individuals within a society. In the U.S., there is a similar battle going on between two distinct political views in our country. On the one side are those, like myself, who believe that the Constitution of the United States is to be understood and applied by the government and the courts as the original writers intended, i.e., the Constitution is a static document. On the other side are those who believe that the original intent of the writers has no bearing upon how the Constitution is to be understood and applied by the government and the courts, i.e., the Constitution is kinetic, flexible and subject to contemporary mores. If the later becomes dominant, then the result will be what is currently happening in Canadian court decisions. One of the most obvious, and admitted violations of the former side's view of the Constitution by the Supreme Court of the United States was in the case of the infamous Roe vs. Wade decision, which declared that a woman's personal preference supersedes the very existence of a human life. This decision has now come to its near full consequence where in the State of New York, it is now legal to kill a newborn infant under the classification of "abortion" and the "right of the mother" to decide if that newborn should live or be murdered.


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Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55613
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:01 PM
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:01 PM
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Anthony C. Offline
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I would say law is subject to power for those who don’t believe...
Think about it, it’s all they have. (We have something far greater and a our government was founded on such principles/foundations).

“The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power--Political, Monetary, Intellectual, and Ecclesiastical."--U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater from his 1964 book "No Apologies"

Last edited by Anthony C.; Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:03 PM.
Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55615
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:55 PM
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:55 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Thank you Anthony and Pilgrim, I agree.

I wonder if I could get some feedback on the following quote from the link I provided. Mainly on the proper reaction from a Christian perspective, to something like this if was your child?

Quote
2. Expanding the definition of “family violence”: In the recent case of A.B. v. C.D. and E.F, the British Columbia Supreme Court denied the father’s injunction application to prevent his 14-year-old child “A.B.” – born female, but identifying as male – from receiving hormonal treatment for gender dysphoria to transition from female to male, and declared that it was in the child’s best interest to be “acknowledged and referred to as male”.[10] The court further declared: “Attempting to persuade A.B. to abandon treatment for gender dysphoria; addressing A.B. by his birth name; referring to A.B. as a girl or with female pronouns whether to him directly or to third parties; shall be considered to be family violence under s. 38 of the Family Law Act.”[11] The court subsequently issued a protection order against the father expressly prohibiting him from doing these things.[12]

3. Hate speech: In Oger v. Whatcott, the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal awarded Morgane Oger $35,000 as compensation for injury to dignity, feelings, and self-respect, for a flyer published by William Whatcott during the 2017 BC provincial election in which Whatcott expressed – if in offensive and at times inflammatory ways – the view that “gender is God given and immutable” and that while surgery or hormonal treatment can alter appearance, “transgenderism is an impossibility”.[13] The flyer stated that “forgiveness” was available through “Christ” for those who repent of such “sins”. In holding that the flyer constituted hate speech prohibited by the BC Human Rights Code, the tribunal interpreted the flyer as ‘denying the very existence of transgender people’ (e.g. paras. 61, 119, 120, 155), stated that the views in the flyer are not a matter of “legitimate public interest” such that they are not protected political expression (paras. 120, 136; 171), and while not finding the Bible passages quoted to be hate speech per se (para. 151), held that they are deployed in a way which contributed to the hateful message as a whole (paras. 155; 162). The tribunal also ordered Mr. Whatcott to pay the complainant $20,000 as “costs for improper conduct” for, among other things, referring to the complainant as a male during the hearing – the very topic of the flyer at issue in the proceeding (para. 323).

These three examples illustrate that the ‘identity anthropology’ is not only dominant, but also imperialistic against the ‘nature anthropology’ which understands sex as being given by nature or nature’s God. In each of these instances, decisionmakers have prohibited the nature anthropology from being acted upon or expressed, both in public and in private, even by a parent towards their own child.


Tom

Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55616
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:10 AM
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:10 AM
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I thought I would also add, that I now know two families, that brought up their children in the Church; where the adult woman now identifies as a man and the other family's daughter identifies as a lesbian.
The later, recently devastated her family (siblings included) with an e-mail blaming them for all her problems and they are no longer welcome in any part of her life. This may be a result of her mom telling her that she loves her, but as a Christian she can not condone her lifestyle. Also, a while before this occurred this young women's live in girlfriend, got unprovoked in her mothers face rebuking her severely. Apparently, although she did not say anything back; it was because she knew had she said anything, they would definitely came to blows.
Her husband asked us to pray for her and the situation; mainly because his wife has not been the same since these two incidences.

The other family, it appears that the mother in order to stay in their daughter's life, has accepted her identification as a man. It appears that her dad, has not done so; but their relationship is strained.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:18 AM.
Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55619
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:50 AM
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:50 AM
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My response would be dependent upon the age of the child. If the child was a minor, then I would definitely try and teach the child the reality of the matter, e.g., that God created man (generic) male and female and their gender was determined from eternity and cannot be changed. To deny one's biological gender/sex is to assault the wisdom of God and His will for their life. If, however, the child is an adult and living at home, and this child insists that their own "identity" is an autonomous decision which no one has the right to deny and they are determined to change their biological gender/sex and express that irrational view, then I would ask them to leave (familial excommunication), with the prayer and hope that by giving them over to Satan, they by God's mercy and power they would be given repentance and be converted.


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Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55622
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:39 PM
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:39 PM
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It seems to me that what no one is mentioning, is chromosomes. It is chromosomes that determine the sex in man, as well as many animals, and even some plants.

Someone with XY chromosomes is by definition male; someone with XX chromosomes is by definition female. No matter how many hormones, or how much surgery, is given to someone, his chromosomes are not changed. An XX is never going to impregnate someone; an XY is never going to conceive.

No matter how much they disagree, it still takes a rooster and a hen to make an egg. grin

There are (supposedly) very rare cases of other chromosome combinations, BUT in all these cases that the fighting is about, a simple recourse to chromosome examination will reveal the truth.


Meta4

There is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. - C.H. Spurgeon
Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Meta4] #55623
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:34 PM
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:34 PM
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Funny you should bring this up! giggle Why? Because, with the Leftists and all other deviants in our day... it isn't about Science, but how one FEELS that counts........ Ooops, except of course, unless the subject is "Climate Change". But then again, Science actually disproves Evolution and Climate Change. So, I guess, it isn't Science after all, but FEELINGS. scratch1

Addendum: How could I possibly forget to include the infamous "AR15" type of firearm? [Linked Image] Yeh, it doesn't matter that the AR15 (AR=Armorlite Rifle), is hardly and "assault rifle". nope No branch in the U.S. Military would even think of using an AR15 for their troops. [Linked Image] the problem is that it LOOKS scary and its black, so therefore it MUST be an "assault rifle", right? It doesn't matter that it is simply a very versatile, light, and dependable rifle which is owned by more people in the U.S. than any other rifle ever made and which every member of a family can shoot and enjoy. It is true, unfortunately that "Ignorance is bliss!" igiveup

Last edited by Pilgrim; Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:47 PM. Reason: Addendum

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Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Pilgrim] #55624
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:18 AM
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:18 AM
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Tom Offline OP
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As you probably noticed in the particular case the child is 14 years old.
It also appears that the father tried to do what you suggested, but was prevented from doing so.
In other words, he is not allowed to do what his parental responsibility as a dad is.
As I think about this; it appears that if he does what the law states he violates God's Word.
Yet if he chooses to obey God rather than man; he ends up in jail.
It is a delema.
Someone recently told me, that as bad as this situation is, if the dad goes to jail he isn't doing anyone any good.
Not sure what to think about that.

Tom

Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55625
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 AM
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 AM
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The age-old principle which is solidly grounded in Scripture is, we are to do all that God commands and not do what God forbids. If any man, society, government demands that we obey what God forbids, we refuse them. If man, society, government forbids what God commands, we are to obey what God commands.

Quote
Acts 5:25-29
25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people. 26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

2 Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."


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Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Pilgrim] #55626
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:26 AM
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:26 AM
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Tom Offline OP
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That is actually my understanding of the correct biblical response, should it come to that.
I have a feeling, a lot of Christians would say that we are not doing anyone any good on jail.

Tom

Re: Christianity and the Law [Re: Tom] #55627
Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:18 PM
Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom
I have a feeling, a lot of Christians would say that we are not doing anyone any good on jail.

Can you say, "Situation Ethics" 3 times, really fast? giggle

I'm not so apathetic as it might appear to some. Really, I can understand how temptations are sometimes very difficult to deal with. Nevertheless, Scripture also deals with such situations in a very clear way, e.g., 1Cor 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." et al.


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