The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum The Gospel

What do you think of the following?

Tom

Hmmmmm, if we believe the Bible was given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life, then IT and not pragmatism should be our guide. One not have to look hard to find how the prophets of old, the Lord Christ, the Apostles and disciples preached THE Gospel. Even the overall scheme of the Bible starts with the sovereignty, majesty and power of God in creation and then the Fall. And then all that follows is how wretched and wicked the natural man is and how God saves His chosen ones from eternal death throughout history. Personally, methinks I'll follow the biblical pattern and leave the 'marketing strategies' of Madison Avenue and the world to those who think they are more effective.

Pilgrim
Sorry, but the way you put that I am not sure what you meant.
In other words although I believe you are saying you reject it as being pragmatism. However, I am not sure what in particular you are basing it on.
By the way, I also have a problem with the statement myself. However, I am not sure what in particular I find troubling.
The person who said it, is Reformed and nobody has challenged him on it.

Tom

Christ and his kingdom first... Give them something to reject... and so warrant the bad news.

Why not follow the biblical pattern which declares the hopeless condition of all and the incomprehensible determinate council of God to show mercy and grace to sinners in Christ Jesus to redeem them through His substitutionary death and imputing His perfect righteousness to their account though faith in Him?

J.I. Packer is of the same mind: The Old Gospel and the New.

Does the 'bad news' need a warrant to be declared? Isn't the 'bad news' and inherent and inseparable part of the true Gospel which is in its entirety 'good news'? Is it not an indisputable truth that the natural man hates God and by nature rejects the Gospel? God does NOT love sinners just the way they are! ALL are by nature children of wrath and liable to judgment. The 'good news' is that in love, God sent His only begotten Son to save them from their sins so that they will not perish. The FIRST work of the Spirit is to convict a sinner of their sin(fulness) Joh 16:8 [notice the order how the Spirit works].

Pilgrim
Just thought I would let you know, I used Packer's article in my reply to him. He responded that he must first go with what Scripture says and then he says John 3 is very clear, that what he says is true. He never said what in particular in John 3 he is referring to. I don't see anything in the passage that shows Packer's article is wrong.
I told him that and he is yet to respond.

Tom

My guess is that he is referring to 3:16. interpreted from the popular semi-Pelagian perspective; God loves everybody and love is God's predominate attribute. Again, Scriptural examples oppose his view.

That would be interesting, concidering he said he is a 5 point Calvinist.
I am however thinking he might have embraced NCT.

Tom

1. Many may claim to be "5 Point Calvinists", but too many are not even close.

2. Why would you think he might have embraced NCT? I'm not sure I see the relationship between NCT and putting the doctrine of Total Depravity on the back burner, only to be mentioned if someone rejects the Gospel? Man by nature hates God and wants nothing to do with the Gospel. Man inherently rejects everything that pertains to God and salvation. A true Calvinist understands this truth and therefore knows the necessity of exposing man's corrupt nature with its horrible consequences and depth.