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The History of Dispensationalism #55814
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 AM
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 AM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
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I have a question related to the history of Dispensationaism. I definitely am not a fan of Dispensationalism and from my studies, the history of it started with John Darby around 1830. However, recently I was told I am greatly mistaken on the history of Dispensationalism. They say that it goes way back to the early Church with people like Justin Martyr, Tertullian, and Methodius. One so called proof of this can be seen at: https://biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/

I am posting this mainly because if I am mistaken about the origins of Dispensationalism, I do not want to repeat it. I want to focus on things I know for sure.

Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55815
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:06 AM
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:06 AM
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You are not incorrect. Dispies conflate "Premillennialism" (Historic - aka:Chiliasm) with "Dispensationalism". William Masslink's article, which you can find here: The History of Chiliasm, will help you understand the difference and thus why it is wrong at best and worst, perhaps even deliberately deceptive, to claim ancient origins for Dispensationism.

Ligon Duncan sums it up like this:

Quote
The dispensational system of theology, if we are honest, is actually a Nineteenth Century phenomenon. Now I don’t want to get into an argument about these things. I know many good dispensationalists like to trace elements of dispensational teaching and belief way back into the history of the church. But as a historical theologian, and that is what I am by profession, I can pretty confidentially tell you that the system of dispensational theology is a Nineteenth Century phenomenon in the history of the church. It is particularly associated with John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren movement in Britain in the Nineteenth Century, and in America, with the name C.I. Scoffield; Cyrus Ingersoll Scoffield.(taken from his article here: Dispensationlism - A Reformed Evaluation)

Another good article on this subject is A.W. Pink's A Study of Dispensationalism.


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Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55817
Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:47 PM
Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:47 PM
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Thank you

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55818
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:04 PM
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:04 PM
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Pilgrim
I thought you might be interested in the response the article you provided received.

“Tom Hardy Notice that this article traces Amillennialism to the early allegorical school of Alexandria and admits that the only way to accept the doctrine of Amillemmialism is to reject the literal teachings of Daniel and Revelation 20 and substituting an allegorical interpretation. Amillennialism also denies Bible prophecy currently being fulfilled: the prophetic alignment of nations, the return of Israel, the economic, political, and religious foundations of the Antichrist kingdom which began in 1948. Jesus told the Jews of his day to recognize the prophetic signs of their time, Amillennialists are totally blind to both the prophetic signs of our times and the literal meaning of Scripture.”

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55819
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:13 PM
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:13 PM
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giggle What? Did you expect the person to throw up his/her arms and confess that everything he/she believes has been wrong?


As to the interpretation of prophecy see this article which is one of several which are salient: Erroneous Interpretation of Prophecy

And, most relevant is that the person's response has NOTHING to do with the origin and history of Dispensationalism. igiveup


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Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55820
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:33 AM
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:33 AM
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Tom Online content OP
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No I did not expect him to throw up His arms...
I am actually not surprised.

I just thought (perhaps wrongly?) that you might be interested in his response seeing you gave me the article.

Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55821
Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:02 AM
Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:02 AM
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yep See my response above.


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Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Pilgrim] #55823
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:42 PM
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:42 PM
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Pilgrim
Sorry, I have no idea why you referred me back to your response.

Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55824
Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:53 PM
Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:53 PM
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I referred you back to my previous reply for no other reason that to show I was indeed interested in his "response" and thus provided additional info. grin


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Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Pilgrim] #55825
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:22 PM
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:22 PM
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Ok sorry, I appreciate the additional info. It is helpful to me; but I think at this point I need to drop the subject the person.


Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55826
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:15 PM
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:15 PM
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yep I agree that pursuing the subject with this particular individual would more than likely be an exercise in futility. [Linked Image]


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Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Pilgrim] #55827
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:02 AM
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:02 AM
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Tom Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim
yep I agree that pursuing the subject with this particular individual would more than likely be an exercise in futility. [Linked Image]


Exactly my thoughts. One of my faults when it comes to these kind of disputes, is that I often spend too much time on them.

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Tom] #55897
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:54 AM
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:54 AM
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Macomb Michigan
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The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.

Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: JesusFan] #55900
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 PM
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JesusFan
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.

Really? Perhaps this article The History of Chiliasm will help to clarify your understanding that "to a large extent what is called Historical premil". grin


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Re: The History of Dispensationalism [Re: Pilgrim] #55915
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:01 AM
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:01 AM
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Tom Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by JesusFan
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.

Really? Perhaps this article The History of Chiliasm will help to clarify your understanding that "to a large extent what is called Historical premil". grin


To be fair to JesusFan, I may be wrong but I think he was trying to say basically what you said.
When he said:
Quote
but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.
I do not think he was trying to say there were Dispi's in the early Church. I think he was just a little clumsy with his words and he is saying that Dispensationalism did't start until the 19th century.
JesusFan, am I correct in how I am understanding you?

Tom

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