Donations for the month of March |
We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.
|
Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE
|
|
|
Posts: 14,450
Joined: April 2001
|
|
|
Forums30
Topics7,781
Posts54,881
Members974
|
Most Online732 Jan 15th, 2023
|
|
|
#55814
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
I have a question related to the history of Dispensationaism. I definitely am not a fan of Dispensationalism and from my studies, the history of it started with John Darby around 1830. However, recently I was told I am greatly mistaken on the history of Dispensationalism. They say that it goes way back to the early Church with people like Justin Martyr, Tertullian, and Methodius. One so called proof of this can be seen at: https://biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/ I am posting this mainly because if I am mistaken about the origins of Dispensationalism, I do not want to repeat it. I want to focus on things I know for sure. Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57
Head Honcho
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57 |
You are not incorrect. Dispies conflate "Premillennialism" (Historic - aka:Chiliasm) with "Dispensationalism". William Masslink's article, which you can find here: The History of Chiliasm, will help you understand the difference and thus why it is wrong at best and worst, perhaps even deliberately deceptive, to claim ancient origins for Dispensationism. Ligon Duncan sums it up like this: The dispensational system of theology, if we are honest, is actually a Nineteenth Century phenomenon. Now I don’t want to get into an argument about these things. I know many good dispensationalists like to trace elements of dispensational teaching and belief way back into the history of the church. But as a historical theologian, and that is what I am by profession, I can pretty confidentially tell you that the system of dispensational theology is a Nineteenth Century phenomenon in the history of the church. It is particularly associated with John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren movement in Britain in the Nineteenth Century, and in America, with the name C.I. Scoffield; Cyrus Ingersoll Scoffield.(taken from his article here: Dispensationlism - A Reformed Evaluation) Another good article on this subject is A.W. Pink's A Study of Dispensationalism.
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
Pilgrim I thought you might be interested in the response the article you provided received.
“Tom Hardy Notice that this article traces Amillennialism to the early allegorical school of Alexandria and admits that the only way to accept the doctrine of Amillemmialism is to reject the literal teachings of Daniel and Revelation 20 and substituting an allegorical interpretation. Amillennialism also denies Bible prophecy currently being fulfilled: the prophetic alignment of nations, the return of Israel, the economic, political, and religious foundations of the Antichrist kingdom which began in 1948. Jesus told the Jews of his day to recognize the prophetic signs of their time, Amillennialists are totally blind to both the prophetic signs of our times and the literal meaning of Scripture.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57
Head Honcho
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57 |
What? Did you expect the person to throw up his/her arms and confess that everything he/she believes has been wrong? As to the interpretation of prophecy see this article which is one of several which are salient: Erroneous Interpretation of ProphecyAnd, most relevant is that the person's response has NOTHING to do with the origin and history of Dispensationalism.
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
Pilgrim No I did not expect him to throw up His arms... I am actually not surprised.
I just thought (perhaps wrongly?) that you might be interested in his response seeing you gave me the article.
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57
Head Honcho
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57 |
See my response above.
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
Pilgrim Sorry, I have no idea why you referred me back to your response.
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57
Head Honcho
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57 |
I referred you back to my previous reply for no other reason that to show I was indeed interested in his "response" and thus provided additional info.
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
Ok sorry, I appreciate the additional info. It is helpful to me; but I think at this point I need to drop the subject the person.
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57
Head Honcho
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57 |
I agree that pursuing the subject with this particular individual would more than likely be an exercise in futility.
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
I agree that pursuing the subject with this particular individual would more than likely be an exercise in futility. Exactly my thoughts. One of my faults when it comes to these kind of disputes, is that I often spend too much time on them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483
Addict
|
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 483 |
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57
Head Honcho
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,450 Likes: 57 |
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century. Really? Perhaps this article The History of Chiliasm will help to clarify your understanding that "to a large extent what is called Historical premil".
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13
Needs to get a Life
|
OP
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,516 Likes: 13 |
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century. Really? Perhaps this article The History of Chiliasm will help to clarify your understanding that "to a large extent what is called Historical premil". To be fair to JesusFan, I may be wrong but I think he was trying to say basically what you said. When he said: but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century. I do not think he was trying to say there were Dispi's in the early Church. I think he was just a little clumsy with his words and he is saying that Dispensationalism did't start until the 19th century. JesusFan, am I correct in how I am understanding you? Tom
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
84
guests, and
17
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|
|
|
|