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Pilgrim
Pilgrim
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LGBQ etc... #55828
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:23 AM
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,851
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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In recent years this particular issue has become more and more an experience that I have had to deal with in one way or another.
Let me explain.
It is pretty clear in Scripture that these things are wrong in the eyes of God.
However, these things are being excepted as the norm in society. To me, that part is not too surprising; even when someone told me angrily that as a Christian I am dangerous and Christianity should be illegal.
However, unfortunately I am having supposedly Christian relatives come out as the opposite sex, or gay.
Also one woman I know in the Church broke up with her boyfriend, only later to identify as a male.
Another friend’s daughter who was brought up in the Church revealed herself as gay to her parents. She was eventually abused by her girlfriend. Her parents came to her rescue. Only to turn to another women as her new girlfriend.
In the meantime her mother out of concern for her daughter told her that she loved her, but as a Christian she can not condone her lifestyle.
This caused her daughter to tell her she never wants to see her again. Which has absolutely devastated her mother. Not only that but her daughter’s girlfriend angrily got in her mothers face within a foot of her face and cursed her out for telling her daughter that.
Apparently the whole time during this her mother nearly punched her daughter’s girlfriend. But was able to stop herself from doing so. However she went away emotionally distraught.
Recently, a friend of mine’s friend came out identifying as a women. My friend is a Christian, but when this person got kicked out of his apartment when his live in partner reneged on their rent, my friend felt obligated to help him by temporally letting him stay at his house. Unfortunately, he is being praised by other Christians as living his Christian life to effect this person in a God honouring way. Yet it seems obvious because that was about 5 months ago now and the person is still living in his apartment that all he is doing is enabling him.
I have told my friend what I believe and all he does is bend his head down and say “I know”.
As you can probably see, I am having to face this kind of thing more and more and to be quite frank, I am not sure how to react anymore.

Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Tom] #55830
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:55 AM
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,816
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Lamentable doesn't begin to describe the current situation, at least in the West, in so-called Evangelical and Reformed Churches. Homosexuality is rapidly being seen as acceptable and even encouraged by many churches, some even 'ordaining' openly gay/lesbian individuals as pastors/elders/deacons. Of course, throughout the world, the visible church is conforming to the world and its philosophies, which was even true in the days of the Apostles. Paul, in particular and by the inspiration of the Spirit of God, didn't mince words concerning homosexuality and all its debaucherous derivations, which is against nature itself, i.e., God's created order and purpose for mankind. Tolerance of these abominations is being legislated in many places as you well know being a citizen of Canada. And, I have no doubt things are only going to get worse.

Quote
Romans 1:18-32 (ASV) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.


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2 Timothy 3:12-14 (KJV) 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];


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Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Tom] #55831
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:22 PM
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:22 PM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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I guess what I am getting at, is how should I react to the situations I am finding myself in?
In some of those cases, they agree that these things are clearly sin.
However, they believe we should love them so they see that love and get a chance to share that truth.
The problem I am finding is, I understand their point. However, it is not love not telling them the truth.
I am all for helping people in their need; but I don’t want to enable them.

Tom

Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Tom] #55832
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:28 PM
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:28 PM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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I thought I would also mention something that I heard recently to defend homosexuality.
They say Lev. 18:22 in the Hebrew is specifically talking about rape. It is not condemning homosexuality.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:29 PM.
Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Tom] #55833
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:34 PM
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,816
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Quote
Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

The assertion that this refers to "rape" is ludicrous. The entire CONTEXT of Leviticus 18 consists of deviant sexual practices. And the Hebrew is perspicuous, that you are not to lie [shakab] (to have sex with) with mankind [zakar] (male, man; implied sexually), AS WITH womankind ['ishshah] (female, woman). Clearly, the prohibition is against any homosexual act.


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Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Tom] #55834
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:40 PM
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 13,816
NH, USA
Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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NH, USA
Speaking the TRUTH... in love (in a loving manner with a genuine concern for the individual's soul.

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Ephesians 4:11-19 (ASV) 11 And he gave some [to be] apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ: 13 till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; 15 but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, [even] Christ; 16 from whom all the body fitly framed and knit together through that which every joint supplieth, according to the working in [due] measure of each several part, maketh the increase of the body unto the building up of itself in love. 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart; 19 who being past feeling gave themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

If a person is in true need, then we are to try and help them. However, we are NOT in any manner to condone nor encourage anyone to sin nor to continue in their sin, of which homosexuality is called of God to be an abomination.

PS: to claim to be a Christian homosexual/lesbian is an oxymoron and completely contrary to what the Spirit has written through the Apostle Paul and others in myriad places.


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Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Pilgrim] #55835
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:56 AM
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,851
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Thanks
Your last line goes without saying.

Tom

Re: LGBQ etc... [Re: Pilgrim] #55836
Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:05 AM
Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,851
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
Tom  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Thanks for the part about the Hebrew translation.
It seems like when people can’t argue using the English text itself. They pull out something like that hoping the person can’t argue.

Tom


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