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Covid-19 and Pharmaceutical Companies
by Tom. Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:37 PM
If You are Baptized you are not saved?
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For Whom Did Christ Die? ~ Steve Lawson
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Lovely Progression ~ Anonymous
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Diversely Excellent ~ Anonymous
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Covid-19 #56082
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:48 PM
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:48 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Why is it I am running into more and more Reformed Christians, that believe obeying health officials mandate not to have meeting with more than 50 people is obeying man rather than God?
They also pull the religious freedom card as though it is about the persecution of Christians.
They are condemning Churches who choose to obey health officials, by providing other means such as live-streaming, or other methods of congregating.
They are saying these Churches lack faith. I say those that say these things are being foolish, not faithful.

Tom

Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56083
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:02 PM
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:02 PM
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On what biblical basis do these 'professed' Reformed Christians claim that disobedience of the God-ordained authorities (government) is justified?

Here is what I read in Scripture:

Quote
Romans 13:1-5 (ASV) 1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher powers: for there is no power but of God; and the [powers] that be are ordained of God. 2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, withstandeth the ordinance of God: and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same: 4 for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake.

The long-standing accepted general guideline in the historic Reformed churches, which I have myriad times stated is: A Christian is to obey all that God has commanded and to disobey all that God has forbidden. If you know you have contracted a highly infectious disease, why would you put everyone else at risk by insisting, for example, upon attending a worship service or even going out in public? Does this not fall under the; "Love thy neighbor as thyself"? scratchchin


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Re: Covid-19 [Re: Pilgrim] #56084
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:54 PM
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:54 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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They say that obeying the government is disobeying the command to keep the Lord’s Day holy.
They seem like they believe live-streaming, or having small meetings is included in this.
They also believe that services must include the Lord’s Table with elders distributing it.
Yes, only an elder can lead the partaking of the Lord’s Table, but in the case of a small gathers that meet health standards, this is possible.
Also in the case where meeting together is not possible, it is better to not partake at all.

Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56085
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:06 PM
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:06 PM
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Keeping the Lord's Day Holy does NOT mandate corporate gatherings for worship.

Quote
Isaiah 58:13-14 (ASV) 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, [and] the holy of Jehovah honorable; and shalt honor it, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words: 14 then shalt thou delight thyself in Jehovah; and I will make thee to ride upon the high places of the earth; and I will feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of Jehovah hath spoken it.

Hebrews 10:25 likewise does not MANDATE corporate worship. IF it is possible to do so, i.e., to worship at a true gospel church, then one should not forsake attending. You don't have to think very hard to realize that there are many extenuating circumstances where it is not prudent nor possible to be part of corporate worship, either temporarily or for an extended period of time. The issue of partaking of the Lord's Table is a mute issue. Frequency of administering the Supper varies between denominations and local churches. And lastly, it is a cheap shot and totally unwarranted to accuse someone who chooses to abstain from corporate worship by their own choice or via government mandate due to this COVID-19 virus of lacking faith. igiveup


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Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56111
Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:55 PM
Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:55 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Unfortunately more and more Calvinist Christians seem to be jumping on the bandwagon that this issue violates their 1st Amendment Rights.
I was dismayed to hear that even someone I respect James White is adding fuel to the fire in that direction.
That is if I was given the full context of what James White is saying.

Please note, I tried to paste what James White said here; but was unsuccessful.

Tom

Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56112
Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:15 PM
Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:15 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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How is "this issue" (which is what exactly?) violating anyone's 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech? scratch1


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Re: Covid-19 [Re: Pilgrim] #56113
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:00 PM
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:00 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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When I get home after work today I will try to copy what James White said on the issue.
However, you may find it faster by using Google.

Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56114
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:15 PM
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:15 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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I watched James White's YouTube video on the COV-19 virus and I found it mostly nothing more than a rambling on about ?????????


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Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56115
Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:40 PM
Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:40 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim

Here is something that was used by someone who is against the Church complying to Government health officials.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...5195607&type=3&theater&ifg=1

If I am understanding James White properly, he is equating things like abortion mills, promoting homosexuality and transgenderism in the same category as what health officials are doing to try to fight Covid-19.
I personally know Christians in the medical field, that are in the front lines of fighting Covid-19 and they tell me just how serious this is. They are putting their own health at risk and what James White said would seem to be thumbing his nose at them.
Yes, people are losing their jobs, but that is predictable under such a situation. I have friends who have been laid-off and I am fortunate enough to still have a job, but we are doing so very short staffed. Not to mention, it is beginning to get hard to get things like surgical gloves, masks and hand sanitizer. All of which is mandatory in order to continue business.

I heard something recently, that I believe puts this all in perspective.
3 of every 100 people will get Covid-19.
Someone who is against what the government is doing: "Those are not bad odds, see I am right."

There is a picture of 100 M&Ms candies.


Me: "Okay, then out of that bowl of 100 M&Ms 3 of them are poisonous. You can eat 10 of them if you want. How do like those odds?"

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:33 PM.
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56116
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:25 AM
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:25 AM
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1. Your Facebook link: This page isn't available. The link you followed may be broken, or the page may have been removed.

2. My view from what I have been able to read from 'reliable' sources is that the reporting and what is being done to fight this virus is overblown. Figures of deaths actually attributed to the COVID-19 virus are inaccurate and hyped. Did you know that there are MANY variations of this virus and which have been around for decades? The "19" simply designates the 2019 version of it.

3. Have you bothered to look at the statistics of the Swine Flu? It was exponentially greater in infections and deaths. Basically, Obama did nothing to combat it and the Lame Street Media did little to no reporting other than to say that Barach (Barry) Obama was fantastic and was doing a impeccable job. Is this particular virus much more dangerous than any other which has been in existence? Hardly!! Is it something to avoid contracting if possible? Of course. No one desires to get the flu/sick. [Linked Image]

As reported by the CDC re: , there were an estimated 60.8 million cases and 12,469 deaths in the U.S. due to the H1N1 virus, aka: Swine Flu here.

4. Here's the James White video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qoE7znzS_k. Perhaps it isn't the right one?

5. Dinesh D'Sousa spoke on the Coronovirus on YouTube too and here is what his thoughts were:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Paj52iadc&t=160s

Last edited by Pilgrim; Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:33 AM. Reason: Added CDC stats for the H1N1, Swine Flu virus.

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Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56117
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:04 PM
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,801
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim

Seeing the link did not work, (although it works for me), seeing it is not too long, I decided to write it out myself.

Quote
So I am wondering. Once you have freely given over your job, your savings, your liberties, and your rights to Caesar all for promise that Caesar will let you have a respirator in the tiny chance you need one (along with the small amount of food in the future, oh, and toilet paper, maybe), what will you do when Caesar then tells you that, “for the common good” and so as to “love your neighbour” he wants your kids, too?
When Caesar is quoting from the Holiness Code while, at the same time keeping the abortion mills running and funded, promoting homosexuality and transgenderism, you *might* want to remember that Satan quoted from Scripture while tempting Jesus, too. It’s an old trick, but it seems to be working with us today. James White]
.

By the way, whether or not I think health officials are handling this correctly, I am not sure. However, this is a very serious issue and they are not doing this to persecute Christians, despite the spin some are putting on this.
I also know that my work takes this very seriously and they take our temperature every day and ask a series of question. one of those questions is whether or not I have been with a group greater than 50 people. If I say yes to anyone of these questions, I automatically have a 14 day quarantine, agreeing not to leave my house.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:06 PM.
Re: Covid-19 [Re: Tom] #56119
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:55 PM
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:55 PM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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I need to make huge apology.
I have been conversing with a friend who is a big James White fan.
He tells me that the quote I was given has nothing to do with Covid-19; it has to do with “Socialism”.
He also stated that on the Dividing Line Broadcast; James White made it clear he was not against what health officials are saying. Also that we must have patience with our brothers and sisters who do not see it this way.

I am afraid I was fooled by this person and I hope I have learned a big lesson.

Tom


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