Hi tom, thanks for the reply, you quote john 6:7 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." and that this contradicts my stance on John 3:16. I do not see any conflict. I think you seem to be equating 'give' happening at the same time as' predestinate' ?, I see no evidence that the two are the same other than to satisfy the TULIP doctrine,
In the chain of events foreknew-predestined-image of christ and predestined-called-justified-glorified. (romans 8 29-30). Where does 'give' belong in this chain. I suggest it applies to when we are born again in christ. Thats why we are given to him then at this point, we are a part of the body then.. Likewise, when does 'drawing'(john 6:44) happen- i am not sure- I suggest it is around and may be associated with 'calling'.
So, absolutely all who are saved have to be drawn but that statement does not necessitate all drawn/called are saved. We know from Mat 22:14 that not all called are chosen. The same for john 6 65.
There is no conflict for me For God so loved (the entire world-everyone) that whosoever believed ( a sub group within 'everyone') will have eternal life.
To repeat I think the TULIP doctrine struggles once it is established that our spirit component pre-exsited our birth on earth. There is much evidence to support this for which i produced a web page just for this forum with over 20 scriptural references that support this view.
https://worldsapartbiblically.com/for_head_honcho.htmlI have also just added a, probably clumsy, allegory that may explain my stance better called 'Earthsville' which starts the page.
As i have answered your questions could you now please answer mine? when I ask this question your peers seem to want to stop the debate and start praying for me but lets see what you do?
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being' as you rightly point out is talking about a time in the past. So in who? How did we move? and how did we exist? in this previous time?
