The Highway

The History of Dispensationalism

Posted By: Tom

The History of Dispensationalism - Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:30 AM

I have a question related to the history of Dispensationaism. I definitely am not a fan of Dispensationalism and from my studies, the history of it started with John Darby around 1830. However, recently I was told I am greatly mistaken on the history of Dispensationalism. They say that it goes way back to the early Church with people like Justin Martyr, Tertullian, and Methodius. One so called proof of this can be seen at: https://biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/

I am posting this mainly because if I am mistaken about the origins of Dispensationalism, I do not want to repeat it. I want to focus on things I know for sure.

Tom
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:06 AM

You are not incorrect. Dispies conflate "Premillennialism" (Historic - aka:Chiliasm) with "Dispensationalism". William Masslink's article, which you can find here: The History of Chiliasm, will help you understand the difference and thus why it is wrong at best and worst, perhaps even deliberately deceptive, to claim ancient origins for Dispensationism.

Ligon Duncan sums it up like this:

Quote
The dispensational system of theology, if we are honest, is actually a Nineteenth Century phenomenon. Now I don’t want to get into an argument about these things. I know many good dispensationalists like to trace elements of dispensational teaching and belief way back into the history of the church. But as a historical theologian, and that is what I am by profession, I can pretty confidentially tell you that the system of dispensational theology is a Nineteenth Century phenomenon in the history of the church. It is particularly associated with John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren movement in Britain in the Nineteenth Century, and in America, with the name C.I. Scoffield; Cyrus Ingersoll Scoffield.(taken from his article here: Dispensationlism - A Reformed Evaluation)

Another good article on this subject is A.W. Pink's A Study of Dispensationalism.
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:47 PM

Thank you
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:04 AM

Pilgrim
I thought you might be interested in the response the article you provided received.

“Tom Hardy Notice that this article traces Amillennialism to the early allegorical school of Alexandria and admits that the only way to accept the doctrine of Amillemmialism is to reject the literal teachings of Daniel and Revelation 20 and substituting an allegorical interpretation. Amillennialism also denies Bible prophecy currently being fulfilled: the prophetic alignment of nations, the return of Israel, the economic, political, and religious foundations of the Antichrist kingdom which began in 1948. Jesus told the Jews of his day to recognize the prophetic signs of their time, Amillennialists are totally blind to both the prophetic signs of our times and the literal meaning of Scripture.”
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:13 AM

giggle What? Did you expect the person to throw up his/her arms and confess that everything he/she believes has been wrong?


As to the interpretation of prophecy see this article which is one of several which are salient: Erroneous Interpretation of Prophecy

And, most relevant is that the person's response has NOTHING to do with the origin and history of Dispensationalism. igiveup
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:33 AM

Pilgrim
No I did not expect him to throw up His arms...
I am actually not surprised.

I just thought (perhaps wrongly?) that you might be interested in his response seeing you gave me the article.

Tom
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:02 AM

yep See my response above.
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:42 PM

Pilgrim
Sorry, I have no idea why you referred me back to your response.

Tom
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:53 PM

I referred you back to my previous reply for no other reason that to show I was indeed interested in his "response" and thus provided additional info. grin
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:22 AM

Ok sorry, I appreciate the additional info. It is helpful to me; but I think at this point I need to drop the subject the person.


Tom
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:15 AM

yep I agree that pursuing the subject with this particular individual would more than likely be an exercise in futility. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:02 AM

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
yep I agree that pursuing the subject with this particular individual would more than likely be an exercise in futility. [Linked Image]


Exactly my thoughts. One of my faults when it comes to these kind of disputes, is that I often spend too much time on them.
Posted By: JesusFan

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:54 PM

The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by JesusFan
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.

Really? Perhaps this article The History of Chiliasm will help to clarify your understanding that "to a large extent what is called Historical premil". grin
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by JesusFan
The early Church would be to a large extent what is called Historical premil in its theology, but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.

Really? Perhaps this article The History of Chiliasm will help to clarify your understanding that "to a large extent what is called Historical premil". grin


To be fair to JesusFan, I may be wrong but I think he was trying to say basically what you said.
When he said:
Quote
but not the full blown Dispy from the 19th Century.
I do not think he was trying to say there were Dispi's in the early Church. I think he was just a little clumsy with his words and he is saying that Dispensationalism did't start until the 19th century.
JesusFan, am I correct in how I am understanding you?

Tom
Posted By: Pilgrim

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:07 PM

What I was conveying was that the "large extent", i.e., the majority of people in the Early Church were Premillennialists, isn't accurate. I was not saying anything about what "kind" of Chiliasm was being held, e.g., Historic Premil vs. Dispensationalism. Augustine, e.g., held to a large extent what is known today as Amillennialism. As Masselink rightly points out, Chiliasm was part of Judiasm which Christ rejected.
Posted By: JesusFan

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:28 PM

The Church did hold to some extent a Pre Mil view though, as was not changed by the main until Augustine, who made popular his view that the Church of Rome was the Kingdom of God here on earth.
Posted By: Tom

Re: The History of Dispensationalism - Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:06 AM

JesusFan

I think you are missing the point. Historic Premillennialism and Dispensational Premillennialism are miles apart.
To compare the two is like comparing fruit to vegetables.
Too many Dispensationalists make the connection to try to prove Dispensationalism was not born in the 19th century.

I don't have time at the moment to search; but it would not surprise me if The Highway had an article showing how different they are.

Tom
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