Susan Speculates

Was Abraham's son Ishmael in the Abrahamic Covenant? No, but he was given an outward sign along with every other male in his household, yet these verses clearly show he was not "in the covenant"! If a person was not circumcised in their heart, even if they were circumcised outwardly, they were not considered "in God's covenant" even though they lived among God's people, because they did not have faith.

The outward sign of what? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps the Abrahamic Covenant!!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" /> Abraham’s covenant did not just include circumcised saved ones, did it??? It had circumcised lost ones, which were not heirs of the promise (Gal 4:30).

The Scripture states,

Gen 17:10f This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee (Ishmael is Abraham’s seed): every male among you (Ishmael is a male) shall be circumcised (Ishmael was circumcised). And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt me and you (Abrahamic Covenant). The fact that Ishmael was circumcised revealed that he was a member of the Abrahamic Covenant. Though NOT all Abraham’s seed were saved (Ishmael and others, for Abraham was the father of “many nations,” Gen 17:4) they still had the sign of the Covenant. The Scripture, not mere speculation, affirms that both lost and saved were circumcised. The Scripture, not mere speculation, affirms that both lost and saved babies were circumcised. The Scripture, not mere speculation, affirms that both lost and saved are baptized. The problem for many is that they continue to equate belonging to the Abrahamic Covenant with “only” being born again. But, though everyone who is saved is a member of the Abrahaimc Covenant (Gal 3:29), not everyone who was a member of the Abrahmic Covenant was/is saved (Gal 5:2-4)!

Susan states,

All who are baptized are not Christians, but only those who have regenerated hearts. The unbelievers can have no part in or a relationship to Christ because they are spiritually dead.

For the most part here I agree with you as long as you mean a saving relationship. But, if you mean any relationship at all then I would have to submit that you are in error, as the lost are partakers of common grace, some are affected “somewhat” (though not effectually) by the Gospel and its preaching, many are baptized, in reference to the Lord's Supper they eat and drink damnation to themselves, and some are changed “somewhat” (though not effectually) by their relations to other Christians, etc. All these represent some sort of relationship with Christ. Ishmael was affected by his relationship with Abraham, et. al.

Reformed and Always Reforming,