Donations for the month of September
We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.
Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE
Posts:
14,406
Joined: April 2001
Forums30
Topics7,726
Posts54,701
Members974
Most Online732Jan 15th, 2023
RFK Jr.
by Pilgrim - Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:56 PM
China
by Tom - Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:43 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
Hi Joe:
As usual, you have ignored the direct question and are engaging in verbal gymnastics to get around a simple answer.
To do so, you asked:
Gerry do you think you may have not given us the complete context of this quote in Part 2,
No, Joe, I don't, because, once again, your own quote from Berkhoff proves the point I am making, which is that he, Berkhoff, can't reconcile a covenant of grace for the elect, and include the non-elect. It simply can't be done because it is either/or as I previously stated and you have chosen to ignore. Read your own quote again, part of which I supply;
While they understood that others have a place in the covenant in some sense of the word, they nevertheless felt that that it a was subordinate place, and that their relation to it was calculated to be subservient to the full realization of it in a life of friendship with God…..
Berkhoff must use terms like "some sense of the word" and "subservient to the full realization of it" to qualify his understanding of the covenant of Grace. Sorry, but this is the same as saying that such are not the elect, for there is no such thing as the elect who have less than "a full realization of it in a life of friendship with God".
To compound the error Berkhoff goes on to state:
From the proceeding it follows that even unregenerate and unconverted person may be in the covenant. Ishmael and Esau were originally in the covenant,
To which I reply, unregenerate and unconverted persons may be in A covenant, but not THE covenat of Grace, which flows from the covenant of redemption, the everlasting covenant, ordered in all things and sure. Ishamel and Esau may have been in some covenant but not the covenant of grace, or at least no covenant of grace I want any part of.
As I said before, this is a weak attempt to reconcile apparently divergent scriptures.
Why don't you just admit your error and get on with it instead of making statements like the following;
Gerry, the Scripture severely severs your argument
On the contrary, sir, scripture fully supports it for the postion I have taken requires no mental and verbal gymnastics, no double speak about the covenenant of grace "in some sense of the word". No, my postion, in keeping with the analogy of faith, reconciles all the scripture such that such qualifications and contradictions, which both you and Wes have refused to address directly, are eliminated.
Now, would you care to answer my question directly instead of providing more equivocation and qualification from Berkhoff? Or will you let the deafening silence be the answer?
In Him,
Gerry
Entire Thread
Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:09 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
MarieP
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:22 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
fredman
Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:53 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:43 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Wes
Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:10 PM
Baby Dedications & Continuity
J_Edwards
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:33 PM
Re: Baby Dedications & Continuity
Wes
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:34 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Tom
Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:39 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
BrimstonePreacha
Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:30 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:51 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:42 AM
Infants and Particular Redemption
MarieP
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:53 AM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Henry
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:49 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:08 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Wes
Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:14 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
J_Edwards
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:16 PM
A Covenant Diagram
J_Edwards
Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:03 PM
The New Covenant
grace2U
Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:55 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:37 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:13 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:45 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:34 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:42 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 9:07 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 11:13 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 12:35 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 1:22 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 2:04 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 7:28 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 11:29 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 1:35 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 1:50 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 11:32 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 1:39 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 3:36 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 11:25 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Tue May 04, 2004 6:57 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:20 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:59 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:54 PM
Re: The New Covenant
MarieP
Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:16 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:00 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:34 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:01 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:40 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:28 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:25 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 01, 2004 2:32 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Sat May 01, 2004 6:07 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 01, 2004 4:14 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Sat May 01, 2004 6:54 PM
Re: The New Covenant
gotribe
Sat May 01, 2004 8:37 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Thu May 06, 2004 7:00 PM
Re: Covenant of Grace vs Covenant of Redemtion ?
Anonymous
Thu May 06, 2004 7:23 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Thu May 06, 2004 7:43 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Fri May 07, 2004 12:57 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 1:16 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Fri May 07, 2004 2:10 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:17 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Fri May 07, 2004 12:56 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 4:31 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Fri May 07, 2004 5:20 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 7:22 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Fri May 07, 2004 10:56 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:45 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 3:01 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 4:21 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 5:05 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 5:33 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 4:22 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 6:20 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 8:55 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:48 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 12:48 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 2:50 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 3:24 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 1:34 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 4:19 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 2:55 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 9:30 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 10:53 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 11:47 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 11:16 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 11:38 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Mon May 10, 2004 12:28 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Mon May 10, 2004 9:24 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Mon May 10, 2004 1:18 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 08, 2004 2:28 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 3:10 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 4:13 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 08, 2004 6:59 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:50 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Fri May 07, 2004 5:19 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 7:11 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 12:55 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 3:01 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 4:01 AM
Re: The New Covenant
MarieP
Sat May 08, 2004 12:13 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 1:43 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 4:06 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 4:42 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 5:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 5:39 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 3:21 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 8:44 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 11:39 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 11:51 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 11:58 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 3:36 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 4:00 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 4:42 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 5:23 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 10:47 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 6:31 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 6:47 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 9:17 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 5:19 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 10:09 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 10:57 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Mon May 10, 2004 7:31 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 11:01 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 11:10 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Henry
Mon May 10, 2004 1:17 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Mon May 10, 2004 1:51 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Henry
Tue May 11, 2004 4:17 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Tue May 11, 2004 12:27 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Henry
Tue May 11, 2004 1:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Tue May 11, 2004 4:03 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 11, 2004 10:27 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Tue May 11, 2004 10:54 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 11, 2004 11:03 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 11, 2004 5:44 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Mon May 10, 2004 3:32 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 8:09 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 3:00 AM
Re: The New Covenant
MarieP
Sat May 08, 2004 8:29 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 9:26 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
MarieP
Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:19 AM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
J_Edwards
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:13 AM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Anonymous
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:01 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
MarieP
Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:07 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:43 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:54 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:52 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:49 AM
Re: Eunuchs and Infants???
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 8:42 PM
Re: The New Covenant
042Dave
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:11 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:18 PM
Re: The New Covenant
042Dave
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:15 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:18 PM
Re: The New Covenant
042Dave
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:37 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:33 PM
Re: The New Covenant
042Dave
Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:53 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:51 AM
Re: The New Covenant
042Dave
Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:56 AM
Re: The New Covenant
chestnutmare
Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
042Dave
Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:17 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Robin
Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:34 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Robin
Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:06 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Robin
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:02 PM
0 members (),
58
guests, and
17
robots.
Key:
Admin ,
Global Mod ,
Mod
S
M
T
W
T
F
S
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
There are no members with birthdays on this day.