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So how did Abraham know the condition of a child’s heart at 8 days old? It is ludicrous to think that every child born to Abraham was in no way a member of the Abrahmaic covenant, prior to faith.
Abraham did not have to know the condition of his child's heart in order to circumcise him. God told him to do it, so he did it. Circumcision told nothing necessarily regarding the person's faith. Only those with faith are in the Covenant of Grace, so not all those circumcised were in the Covenant of Grace. They were not true members of the covenant but only apparent members or members of the Covenant Community. The true sons who had faith were the heirs of the covenant promises. In contrast to his brother, Jacob inherited the promises and blessings of Abraham. The other physical children of Abraham are under the law and are lost.
Genesis 28:1Then Isaac called Jacob and blessed him and directed him, “You must not take a wife from the Canaanite women. 2 Arise, go to Paddan-aram to the house of Bethuel your mother's father, and take as your wife from there one of the daughters of Laban your mother's brother. 3 God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples. 4 May he give the blessing of Abraham to you and to your offspring with you, that you may take possession of the land of your sojournings that God gave to Abraham!”
I was interested in your comments on this passage:
Genesis 17 v.19 Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him [not Ishmael] for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, [not Ishmael] whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year."
God establishes an everlasting covenant with Isaac, Not with Ishmael, how can you explain this if they are both in the same position covenantally?
And I will repeat these questions since you didn't answer them the first time.
[*]Do you believe that Ishmael was
in the Covenant of Grace?
[*]God shows grace only to His elect, so how could an unbeliever even be in that Covenant?
[*] And even more importantly, when you baptize an infant, do you say he or she is "in the New Covenant" and "in Christ"?
Entire Thread
Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:09 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
MarieP
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:22 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
fredman
Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:53 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:43 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Wes
Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:10 PM
Baby Dedications & Continuity
J_Edwards
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:33 PM
Re: Baby Dedications & Continuity
Wes
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:34 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Tom
Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:39 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
BrimstonePreacha
Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:30 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:51 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:42 AM
Infants and Particular Redemption
MarieP
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:53 AM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Henry
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:49 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:08 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Wes
Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:14 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
J_Edwards
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:16 PM
A Covenant Diagram
J_Edwards
Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:03 PM
The New Covenant
grace2U
Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:55 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:37 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:13 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:45 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:34 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:42 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 9:07 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 11:13 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 12:35 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 1:22 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 2:04 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 7:28 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Tue May 04, 2004 11:29 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 1:35 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 1:50 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 11:32 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 1:39 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Wed May 05, 2004 3:36 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 04, 2004 11:25 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Tue May 04, 2004 6:57 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:20 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:59 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:54 PM
Re: The New Covenant
MarieP
Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:16 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:00 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:34 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:01 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:40 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:28 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:25 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 01, 2004 2:32 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Sat May 01, 2004 6:07 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 01, 2004 4:14 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Tom
Sat May 01, 2004 6:54 PM
Re: The New Covenant
gotribe
Sat May 01, 2004 8:37 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Thu May 06, 2004 7:00 PM
Re: Covenant of Grace vs Covenant of Redemtion ?
Anonymous
Thu May 06, 2004 7:23 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Thu May 06, 2004 7:43 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Fri May 07, 2004 12:57 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 1:16 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Fri May 07, 2004 2:10 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:17 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Fri May 07, 2004 12:56 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 4:31 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Fri May 07, 2004 5:20 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 7:22 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Fri May 07, 2004 10:56 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:45 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 3:01 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 4:21 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 5:05 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 5:33 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 4:22 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 6:20 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 8:55 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:48 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 12:48 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 2:50 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 3:24 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 1:34 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 4:19 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 2:55 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 9:30 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 10:53 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 11:47 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 11:16 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 11:38 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Mon May 10, 2004 12:28 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Mon May 10, 2004 9:24 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Mon May 10, 2004 1:18 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 08, 2004 2:28 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 3:10 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 4:13 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Wes
Sat May 08, 2004 6:59 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 11:50 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Fri May 07, 2004 5:19 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Fri May 07, 2004 7:11 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 12:55 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 3:01 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 4:01 AM
Re: The New Covenant
MarieP
Sat May 08, 2004 12:13 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 1:43 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 4:06 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 4:42 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sat May 08, 2004 5:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sat May 08, 2004 5:39 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 3:21 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 8:44 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 11:39 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 11:51 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 11:58 AM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 3:36 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 4:00 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 4:42 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 5:23 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 10:47 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 6:31 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 6:47 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 9:17 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 5:19 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 10:09 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sun May 09, 2004 10:57 PM
Re: The New Covenant
grace2U
Mon May 10, 2004 7:31 AM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sun May 09, 2004 11:01 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 11:10 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Henry
Mon May 10, 2004 1:17 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Mon May 10, 2004 1:51 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Henry
Tue May 11, 2004 4:17 AM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Tue May 11, 2004 12:27 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Henry
Tue May 11, 2004 1:07 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Tue May 11, 2004 4:03 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 11, 2004 10:27 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Tue May 11, 2004 10:54 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 11, 2004 11:03 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Tue May 11, 2004 5:44 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Mon May 10, 2004 3:32 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 8:09 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Pilgrim
Sun May 09, 2004 3:00 AM
Re: The New Covenant
MarieP
Sat May 08, 2004 8:29 PM
Re: The New Covenant
J_Edwards
Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 PM
Re: The New Covenant
Anonymous
Sat May 08, 2004 9:26 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
MarieP
Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:19 AM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
J_Edwards
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:13 AM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
Anonymous
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:01 PM
Re: Infants and Particular Redemption
MarieP
Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:07 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:43 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:54 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:52 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
Anonymous
Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:49 AM
Re: Eunuchs and Infants???
grace2U
Sun May 09, 2004 8:42 PM
Re: The New Covenant
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Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:11 PM
Re: The New Covenant
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Re: The New Covenant
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Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:15 PM
Re: The New Covenant
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Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:18 PM
Re: The New Covenant
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Re: The New Covenant
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Re: The New Covenant
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Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:53 AM
Re: The New Covenant
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Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:51 AM
Re: The New Covenant
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Re: The New Covenant
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Re: The New Covenant
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Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:17 PM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
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Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:34 AM
Re: Continuity in Old and NT
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Re: Continuity in Old and NT
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