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#19404
Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:02 AM
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William stated:
I believe that scripture speaks little on the subject as well. My understanding of mans nature is that all children are born sinners, due the wrath of God. God surely elects some children, but not all. The notion of an "age of accountability" is simply not found in scripture. I uphold UNconditional election. To say that no children are saved seems a bit harsh. To say that all children are saved is a bit optimistic. Elect, children or otherwise, are surely saved. I agree with you and Pilgrim on this issue. During the bible study that I mentioned at the start of this thread, my answer was that I believed there was no way of telling that all children are saved.... even if you are not of a reformed faith. Yet again here's a comment from John MacArthur - If you survey reformed Calvinistic literature over 450 years since Calvin, you'll find that the vast majority of all the writers believe that all infants who die are taken to heaven.
Now, let me kind of expand on that for this is very, very important. You see, it's only pure, true, reformed soteriology --salvation-- only pure, true, reformed soteriology can account for the fact that fallen, sinful, guilty, depraved children who die with no spiritual merit, die with no religious merit, die with no moral merit of their own, can be welcomed by a holy God into eternal glory! Only pure, reformed theology can allow for that because only the purist theology believes that salvation is all by grace!
How were you saved? By what? Grace! You say, "Well, if God just takes all the babies to heaven, that's just grace!" Right! But how were you saved? By law? What do you want? Law for babies and grace for you? You had no more to do with your salvation than a helpless infant. That's why the truest and purest theology is that theology which understands that salvation is by grace, and maybe that's what Jesus had in mind in part when He said, "You who go to heaven, go to heaven as little children." Is there a better illustration of a salvation by grace than the salvation of a helpless infant? Any true understanding of Scripture yields the reality that all salvation is by sovereign choice by God through grace based on nothing that the sinner merits, and is there a better illustration of that than saving lost infants? Does that magnify sovereignty? Does it magnify grace? Of course it does. It seems interesting to me that there are allot of reformed preachers throughout church history that seem to believe in Unconditional infant salvation. I believe though John Calvin was of the opinion that only the elect childern were saved. I have to think of the demands of being a pastor. Do you suppose that even the most calvinistic of preachers compromised their theology when it came to this subject? I imagine it can be pretty hard being in this position. The one thing that I have learned over the past year or so is the difference between the Christian who reads and is interested in the whole councle of God and the Christian who isn't. When I was in my study the lady, who after I started to share my reformed beliefs of election, asked as a matter of factly.... "Well what about babies?" "Don't they all go to heaven?" When I replied that I believed that only the elect or remanent are saved including infants, her and her husband and pretty much the rest of the group looked at me with shameful faces. All except a couple of the men who read the bible and know my reformed views. So as I thought about this later, I felt like retracting my statement. But then I started to realize that their opinion was based on their emotions and not on their biblical knowledge. It seemed unjust to them and cruel that babies would be damned. It also seemed very unfair that people don't have the ability to choose God and that Christ died for the elect only. So again, it's another situation where it's been very hard for me to share my reformed views within a freewilled congregation. I have a praise report though for those of you that know me some. I took my wife to a Reformed PCA church for the first time last Sunday. She said she liked it and was very pleased with the sermon, which was expository and very good. The only concerns she has is the lack of a Sunday School class for the children and the lack of any church related activities that she's so heavily involved in now. But she's been very polite in considering my desire to move. So keep us in your prayers. Thanks. Dave.
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Entire Thread
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Infant salvation
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Reformation Monk
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Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:00 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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reformed yevot
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:06 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Reformation Monk
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:06 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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reformed yevot
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:27 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:32 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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reformed yevot
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:34 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Reformation Monk
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:04 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:51 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Reformation Monk
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:02 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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john
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:18 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Reformation Monk
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Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:20 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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chestnutmare
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Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:40 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:08 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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neicey
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:47 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:11 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:56 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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john
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:11 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Tom
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:42 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Ruth
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:00 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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john
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Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:53 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Tom
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Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:46 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:24 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:18 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:51 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:38 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:27 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:59 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Henry
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:22 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:18 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:55 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:34 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:40 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:20 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:04 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:43 PM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:40 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:09 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:40 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Tom
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:47 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:43 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Peter
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:19 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Anonymous
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Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:54 AM
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Re: Infant salvation
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Peter
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:53 PM
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