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Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,611
Joined: April 2001
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Most Online732 Jan 15th, 2023
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Here's what did it for me. from R.C. Sproul's Chosen By God
20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. Rom 9:20-24 (NASB)
This is a heavy answer to the question. I must confess that I struggle with it. My struggle, however is not over whether the passage teaches double predestination. It clearly does that. My struggle is with the fact that this text supplies ammunition for the advocates of equal ultimacy. It sounds like God is actively making people sinners. But that is not required by the text. He does make vessles of wrath and vessels of honor from the same lump of clay. But if we look closely at the text we will see that the clay with which the potter works is "fallen clay. One batch of clay receives mercy in order to become vessels of honor. That mercy presupposes a clay that is already guily. Likewise God must "endure" the vessels of wrath.
Again the accent in this passage is on God's sovereign purpose and not upon man's free and good choices. Mercy is the issue, not the SIN. Thats a whole 'nuther topic. In predestination some get mercy, some don't, none deserve it. See? Very simple. I'm not sure why I am bothering to do this, b57, since this appears to be a one-way enterprise in your world. I suggest you start a blog and turn the comments off if you'd like to just spew your own ignorance onto the web.
Josh "...the word of God is not bound."--2 Timothy 2:9
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Entire Thread
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Double predestination
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knoxandcalvin
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:40 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:43 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:59 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:46 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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gotribe
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:30 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:46 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:57 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:08 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:14 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:04 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:17 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:20 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:27 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:38 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:48 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:36 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:39 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:36 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:53 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:24 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:42 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:02 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:45 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:53 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:03 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:00 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:16 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:06 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:13 PM
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Re: Posting long articles here
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:43 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:11 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:48 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:23 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:21 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:30 AM
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Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:52 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:54 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:59 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:42 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:19 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:39 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:20 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Joe k
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Tom
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:46 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:45 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Tom
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:43 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:17 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:56 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:52 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:29 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:22 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:32 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:45 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:22 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:38 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:35 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:34 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:13 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:54 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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li0scc0
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:22 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:03 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:58 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:33 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:53 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:36 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:08 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:05 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:07 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:16 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:04 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:47 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:29 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:23 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:25 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:12 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:26 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:18 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:10 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:58 PM
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Privation of the Good
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Robin
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:31 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:44 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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li0scc0
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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gnarley
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:20 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:10 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:23 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:09 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:59 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:06 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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doulos
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:36 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:11 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:34 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:41 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:51 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:56 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:02 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:51 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:07 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:58 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:19 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:01 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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doulos
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:40 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:38 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:59 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:17 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:36 AM
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