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Dear Joe,<br>I don't quite understand how I did not respond to your tree of life illustration. I simply said that the holy city was also mentioned as being taken away. This by itself makes my case. I fail to see how "take away his part" means "never had a part in the first place." This violates the simple denotation of this passage. You make bold assertations that I must take John 6 in its most literal sense (which I do), why can't you say the same here? Concerning Revelation 3:21, this does make a statement of security, but it does refers to when we will enter New Jerusalem, not the present time. Recall also that all overcomers will eat of the tree of life (Revelation 2:7), thus if one performed the act mentioned in 22:19, it would be an obvious indicator that he was no longer an overcomer.<br><br>And yes, I am well aware that Christ has full ownership of believers. We are also sealed by the Holy Spirit, which guarantees security from any power in the world that might try to drag us away from Christ (see Romans 8:38-39). This does not guarantee that a believer cannot walk away from God. If this did happen, that person would be cut off from by God the Father (John 15), for He is sovereign and has the right to do so with what is His.<br><br>And yes, Christ promises believers His new name. And? He also promises us eternal life, but the promises only apply to those who do not fall away. As I stated before, the fact that a person can have their part in the tree of life taken away proves that it is possible for a believer to fall away and not be classed as "he who overcomes." This promise would not apply to them.<br><br>In response to Dabney's:<br>"As to the last passage, to make sure our election, is most manifestly spoken only with reference to the believer’s own apprehension of it, and comfort from it; not as to the reality of God’s secret purpose."<br><br>and<br><br>"Granting that God has a secret purpose infallibly to save a given soul, that purpose embraces means as fully as ends; and those means are such as suit a rational free agent, including all reasonable appeals to hope and fear, prospect of danger, and such like reasonable motives. Now, that an elect man may fall totally, is naturally possible, considering him in his own powers; hence, when God plies this soul with fears of falling it is by no means any proof that God intends to permit him to fall, in His secret purpose. Those fears may be the very means designed by God to keep him from it."<br><br>This is baloney. God does not make idle threats, false testimonies, or give warnings against things which cannot occur. Since this is a testimony from Jesus Christ Himself, rather than explain it away, I will take Him at His word. Dabney's error is also apparent in light of 1 John 4:16-18 "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." <br><br>How can a God of love that casts out fear promote fear in those He loves? Dalbey's reasoning is simple grasping at straws, but God's word stands firm: He means what He says.<br><br><br>In Christ,<br>Josh
Entire Thread
Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:42 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Pilgrim
Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:26 PM
There cannot be two books of life
Anonymous
Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:36 PM
Re: There cannot be two books of life
Pilgrim
Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:29 PM
Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
Anonymous
Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:20 PM
Re: Protestant doesn't necessarily mean Calvinist
Pilgrim
Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:54 PM
That doesn't address the issue
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:51 PM
Re: That doesn't address the issue
Pilgrim
Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:42 PM
Re: That doesn't address the issue
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 3:44 PM
A Minor Point
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:13 PM
Re: There cannot be two books of life
Wes
Thu Jun 20, 2002 6:17 PM
Changing a book doesn't change God
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 1:44 PM
Ordinances Annulled
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:56 PM
Re: Ordinances Annulled
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:32 PM
Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:18 AM
Re: Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:20 PM
Re: Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:56 PM
Re: Consider this Josh
Anonymous
Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:57 AM
A consideration for you
Anonymous
Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:30 PM
Sanctification
lazarus
Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:12 PM
Sanctification in Hebrews 10:29
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:28 PM
Original Sin = No Free Will
Wes
Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:46 PM
You misunderstand my position brother
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:19 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Wes
Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:35 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:54 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Wes
Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:04 AM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:25 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Ehud
Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:12 AM
The greatest commandment
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:16 PM
Re: You misunderstand my position brother
Wes
Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:15 AM
Ryle on Assurance
Anonymous
Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:10 PM
Re: Ryle on Assurance
Wes
Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:47 PM
Justification and sanctification are inseparable
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:22 PM
Justification and sanctification are inseparable but distinct
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:42 PM
The sovereignty of God
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:20 PM
Re: The sovereignty of God
Wes
Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:54 PM
Meaning of Nothing
Anonymous
Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:00 PM
Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:41 PM
More comments to consider
Anonymous
Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:40 AM
John Gill's commentary
Anonymous
Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:39 PM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:52 AM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:27 PM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:09 AM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:51 PM
Re: Meaning of "separate"
lazarus
Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:55 PM
What God wills
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:05 AM
Re: What God wills
Ehud
Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:28 PM
Re: What God wills
Anonymous
Tue Aug 27, 2002 5:57 PM
Re: What God wills
lazarus
Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:43 PM
Conditions and works
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:10 PM
Re: Conditions and works
lazarus
Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:57 PM
God not a respecter...
lazarus
Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:57 PM
Re: God not a respecter...
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:19 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Ricky
Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Pilgrim
Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:38 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
J_Edwards
Thu Jun 20, 2002 5:41 PM
One may lose more than the tree of life
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:24 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Ricky
Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:32 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Kez
Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:43 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
chestnutmare
Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:06 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:38 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:54 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
J_Edwards
Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:43 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:02 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
J_Edwards
Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:13 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Tom
Sat Jun 22, 2002 6:13 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
carlos
Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:44 PM
Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:18 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:12 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:49 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:56 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:37 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:16 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:47 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:53 PM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:46 AM
Re: Characteristics of sheep
carlos
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:17 PM
Merits vs. Conditions
Anonymous
Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:54 PM
Re: Election....
carlos
Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:23 PM
Re: Election....
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:14 PM
Re: Election....
carlos
Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:37 PM
Re: Election....
carlos
Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:23 PM
Re: Election....
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:05 PM
BUSY....
carlos
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:24 PM
Re: perseverance
carlos
Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:07 PM
Re: perseverance
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:12 PM
The Good Shepherd?
Anonymous
Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 PM
You sorely misjudge me
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:38 PM
Re: You sorely misjudge me
lazarus
Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:21 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:30 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:42 AM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:19 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Wed Oct 02, 2002 6:15 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:52 PM
Re: In reply...
Ehud
Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:54 PM
Some questions
Anonymous
Sun Aug 04, 2002 11:20 PM
Some answers
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:26 PM
Re: perseverance
carlos
Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:03 AM
Forgot "DO NOT"
carlos
Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:16 PM
Hope he returns
Anonymous
Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:08 PM
Haven't left, just been busy
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:00 PM
Re: Haven't left, just been busy
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:10 PM
Re: perseverance
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:01 PM
Rebuttal on Perseverance
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:57 PM
Re: Rebuttal on Perseverance
fredman
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:14 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:09 AM
Re: In reply...
fredman
Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:25 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:06 PM
Re: In reply...
fredman
Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:56 PM
conditional salvation and God's warnings
Anonymous
Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:53 PM
Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
carlos
Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:49 PM
Re: conditional salvation and God's warnings
fredman
Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:25 AM
Re: Merits vs. Conditions
carlos
Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:21 PM
Glorification
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:10 PM
Re: Glorification
carlos
Sun Jul 14, 2002 7:55 AM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:18 PM
Redirection
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:25 PM
You read between the lines
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:00 PM
Re: You read between the lines
J_Edwards
Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:38 PM
How a man is saved
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:08 PM
Re: How a man is saved
J_Edwards
Mon Jun 24, 2002 6:27 PM
What "save yourselves" actually means
Anonymous
Mon Jun 24, 2002 8:55 PM
Josh You Are Soooooo Confused
J_Edwards
Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:30 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:49 PM
Re: In reply...
J_Edwards
Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:04 PM
Re: In reply...
Ehud
Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:47 PM
Resisting God
Paul_S
Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:31 AM
Re: Resisting God
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:01 PM
Ambiguity and Contradictions
Paul_S
Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:28 PM
Clarification
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:53 PM
Contradictions vs. Comfort
Paul_S
Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:10 AM
Your comfort must be scriptural
Anonymous
Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:45 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
lazarus
Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:45 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
carlos
Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:57 AM
Conditions vs. Performance
Anonymous
Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:44 PM
Getting personal
Paul_S
Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:19 PM
Re: Getting personal
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:06 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
Anonymous
Thu Jul 04, 2002 5:21 PM
Re: Your comfort must be scriptural
Pilgrim
Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:39 PM
What else could Saul do...?
Anonymous
Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:43 PM
Re: What else could Saul do...?
Pilgrim
Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:11 PM
Resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:03 PM
Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:50 PM
Re: Resisting the Holy Spirit
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:16 AM
Recreated or Born Again?
Wes
Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:10 PM
Re: Recreated or Born Again?
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:59 PM
Re: Resisting God
lazarus
Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:25 PM
Redirection
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:13 PM
Re: Resisting God
Tom
Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:59 PM
Re: Resisting God
Anonymous
Mon Aug 05, 2002 2:01 PM
Re: Resisting God
Pilgrim
Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:48 PM
Joshism & Revelation 22:19
J_Edwards
Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:04 AM
Take God's warnings seriously
Anonymous
Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:40 PM
Josh you need to repent
J_Edwards
Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:57 PM
Josh if you are coorect THEN
J_Edwards
Wed Jun 26, 2002 12:54 AM
Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:03 PM
Re: Josh if you are coorect THEN
J_Edwards
Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:54 AM
Right...
Anonymous
Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:57 PM
Re: Right...
J_Edwards
Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:54 PM
Hebrews 6
Anonymous
Mon Jul 08, 2002 8:52 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
J_Edwards
Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:03 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
Anonymous
Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:32 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
J_Edwards
Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:51 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
carlos
Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:36 PM
Re: Hebrews 6
J_Edwards
Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:53 AM
Re: Hebrews 6
carlos
Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:01 PM
The Grip of God
Anonymous
Thu Jul 11, 2002 11:56 PM
Re: Josh you need to repent
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:56 PM
Re: Josh you need to repent
J_Edwards
Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:44 PM
Re: Josh you need to repent
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:31 PM
Josh
Anonymous
Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:43 PM
Re: Josh
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 01, 2002 10:07 AM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:40 PM
Re: Josh
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:49 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:38 PM
Re: Josh
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:40 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:44 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:28 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:22 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:07 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Wed Aug 07, 2002 11:33 AM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:20 AM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:23 AM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:49 PM
Re: Josh
Ehud
Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:19 PM
Re: Josh
lazarus
Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:50 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:41 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:31 PM
Re: Josh
Pilgrim
Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:12 PM
Re: Josh
Anonymous
Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:37 PM
Re: Josh
lazarus
Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:02 PM
Re: Josh
carlos
Fri Aug 02, 2002 6:55 PM
The foreknowledge and sovereignty of God
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:17 PM
In my defense...
Anonymous
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:14 PM
Re: In my defense...
J_Edwards
Thu Aug 08, 2002 2:50 PM
In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:17 PM
Re: In reply...
J_Edwards
Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:55 PM
Re: In reply...
Anonymous
Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:35 PM
Re: In reply...
J_Edwards
Sun Oct 13, 2002 1:36 PM
Re: In my defense...
fredman
Thu Aug 08, 2002 3:09 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
li0scc0
Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:21 PM
Re: Revelation 22:19 Contradicts Calvinist Doctrine
Pilgrim
Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:32 PM
Re: Changing a book doesn't change God
042Dave
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 PM
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